@tiger5150 I agree with you 100%. I definitely won’t be renewing. This year was the first year I bought no supporter gear. I’m sure there are a lot of others thinking the same way.
I am only renewing for the LO seats I have that's it.
its the only thing keeping me in as well. We must catch up at the next LO match.
Im not going to ask you where you sit, that got me in trouble on another forum before.
Mate, you shouldn't suggest that all WT fans/members see this as a "punch in the guts". I think it's fantastic that Sheens (and McDonnell before him ) are gone. Now get rid of Furner and Lambkin. To me, that would be a decisive and positive step forward.Just wanted to give a shout out to all our forum members and all WT fans.
What a punch in the guts today - another low point.
This is your club - not the admin
It's yours, it's ours, it's our kids.
If you haven't already- signed the petition, get your family and friends to sign the petition.
Let's stay constructive and united
Look after yourselves
i dont really care if Lambkin does nothing but put the witches hats out, I'd keep him for the Westfields link for signing juniors.
Continual failure = less fans = less memberships = less hat sales = insolvency.prediction
we will lose Tupou
we will lose Bula
we will be in Perth by 2035
I’d be pretty surprised if we’re still around in 2035. NRL will intervene before then.
No they won't. NRL will only intervene if Tigers become insolvent.
A team running last every year will not be able to maintain a strong supporter base. Young people don't want to go for the Tigers. My 4 year old goes for the Dolphins and whoever the Tigers are playing. We're a loser club - kids don't want to go for losers.
It hasn't trended that way in the last decade and I personally don't think it's going to end up that way either. NRL currently covers the full salary cup plus $5M.
Also the doom and gloom about loser clubs - I'm not convinced. How do Souths have any supporters making only one finals appearance between 1990 and 2011? Magpies won 4 wooden spoons in my first decade and they still had supporters.
I hope Furner stays. I believe when we have fielded a decent team we have defended much better this year.
If Morris comes, I really hope Benji is smart enough to allow him some decent reign.
Well, Lambkin would care. He's a part of the protected cabal of Sheens henchmen - all of them past their use by date - who will be hoping for Sheens to get a gig somewhere to prolong their relevance in NRL. Sadly, for Lambkin et al, I feel that no other NRL club sees the wit-and-wisdom of Tim Sheens as the silver bullet for NRL success. Lambkin can stick to his talented schoolboys who, let's face it, would be as successful with any coach guiding them.Mate, you shouldn't suggest that all WT fans/members see this as a "punch in the guts". I think it's fantastic that Sheens (and McDonnell before him ) are gone. Now get rid of Furner and Lambkin. To me, that would be a decisive and positive step forward.Just wanted to give a shout out to all our forum members and all WT fans.
What a punch in the guts today - another low point.
This is your club - not the admin
It's yours, it's ours, it's our kids.
If you haven't already- signed the petition, get your family and friends to sign the petition.
Let's stay constructive and united
Look after yourselves
i dont really care if Lambkin does nothing but put the witches hats out, I'd keep him for the Westfields link for signing juniors.
@jirskyr the two teams you've used to back your example were 1. made to merge to survive and 2. were kicked out by the nrl.
In 1997 Souths averaged 5000 fans, Wests 7000. Last year we averaged over 11000. How do you think things will look when we hit 5000?
Don't miss the latest pod - Steve and I discuss the Sheens departure. https://weststigerspodcast.com.au/wests-tigers-podcast-0282/
Wests Tigers Podcast - Talking everything Wests Tigers!
@jirskyr Souths were booted from the comp, readmitted and sold during that time before any success. Is that really the best example?
Wests were forced to merge or die…..
@jirskyr man you can’t compare fandom from 30 years ago with fandom from today .
the goal posts have shifted so far . Anybody under 30 years of age is far more fickle, and to be honest pragmatic , with the way they want to spend their time being entertained .
If there is no foreseen value in supporting this club , many of the casuals simply won’t .
In fact a former mate of mine , used to wish and wash between the roosters and tigers circa 05-13 depending on who was on the up at the time .
Blasphemy for most of us , but that’s far more closer to the newer generations view point regarding their fandom . Throw in American sports and premier league for further distractions , imo , it would be naïve to even suggest that the 80s,90s and 00s are even remotely comparable outside of using the data to prove a point .
@jedi-tiger I gotta say , I tend to agree on brooks a lot of the time, but if I’m being objectively critical , and as kind as I can , then he looks devoid of ideas at times especially in red zone .
Is it him , or is it a case of finding it hard to soar like an eagle when you’re surrounded by turkeys , I have no idea .
I guess we will find out next year .
Im super excited about a Sullivan / fainu combo .
I can see Sezer being beaten to the gate ala Katoa / Milford for the dolphins as well.
Which is only a good thing. The quicker this fainu is ready , the better off we are .
Fulton said he is ready to go from Game 1 ! If he is good enough he is old enough !
My assistant coaches for next season would be Morris and Gardiner if you could get him from the Panthers , I have a high regard for Gardiner who has the ability to resonate with younger players and players in general that coaching trio would be young and dynamic ..his removal was another Sheens master stroke happy Sheens is gone !
@jirskyr the two teams you've used to back your example were 1. made to merge to survive and 2. were kicked out by the nrl.
In 1997 Souths averaged 5000 fans, Wests 7000. Last year we averaged over 11000. How do you think things will look when we hit 5000?
No 2022 we averaged 13,699 home crowd. 11,000 was 2021, impacted by COVID. 2023 average crowds are actually up - 15,273. So you don't currently have any argument on crowd trajectories at this timepoint - home crowds for Tigers are trending up despite the results. See attachment
Wests Tigers have never had an average home crowd less than 11K. But the max average home crowd is still only 18,883 during 2006. This tells us during the lean seasons we still get better than half-capacity crowds at any of our traditional home venues LO or CSS, but even during our best seasons we do not consistently sell out our traditional home venues either.
Everything else you've said is predicated on a prediction of massive dip in crowds over the next 12 years (to 2035), which has never actually been observed. In fact Tigers crowds are trending up recently, and during the worst seasons, still never less than 11K. Tigers still also post 20K memberships every year in spite of results.
Nobody is signing on for Tigers memberships or home ground tickets in 2023-2024 and not fully aware of the painful lack of results for the club. Therefore all available data shows that Tigers still post pretty good engagement figures, comparable to most Sydney-based clubs year-on-year, despite not winning. That's the baseline of support that the club has without winning being a factor.
Of course interest can cool over time but that's just your guess, there's nothing in the NRL data that indicates this will occur, and such a cooling would probably be a game-wide phenomenon, not restricted to Wests Tigers.
Other than that, Souths are the perfect example. Yes kicked out by the fledgling NRL and that's why the example is perfect. Souths won the resulting court case to be re-instated and have set a legal precedent regarding revocation of licences. NRL are legally and politically cowed - they will not attempt to revoke a licence unless a club has serious serious deficits, well beyond "lack of winning". There would need to be very significant financial or governance / malpractice deficits for this to occur.
Even within the club's own history, when Balmain became insolvent the NRL gave them a loan to keep operating with minimal changes except 3 independent board members. So we've already had a litmus test for what the NRL might do if the club had financial issues. There were no threats of revocation or relocation.
You missed my other point - NRL currently covers the salary cap plus $5 million. It's an argument frequently levelled at Pascoe and his team, that even a monkey could run a club with that kind of funding. The club does not specifically require ticket and merchandise sales to pay for operations. So even with monkeys in charge we still aren't insolvent.
The other component you have ignored is that even if Wests Tigers were in financial difficulty, Wests Ashfield AKA Holman Barnes certainly is not. Tigers do not rely on WA for operations funding any more, but if that situation changed, the first recourse would be for the owners to dip into their own pockets.
So what you are prophesising is not just an unprecedented down-turn in crowds and revenues over the next 12 years, but a substantial deficit in guaranteed NRL funding (which would affect all clubs) and an inability or unwillingness of the club's owners to stump up to guarantee operations. None of that is going to happen in the next decade based on lack of finals footy. It would take a catastrophic hit to NRL HQ or staggering Tigers fraud/malpractice to shift the needle even slightly towards folding or relocation. Doesn't add up.
The other component you have ignored is that even if Wests Tigers were in financial difficulty, Wests Ashfield AKA Holman Barnes certainly is not. Tigers do not rely on WA for operations funding any more, but if that situation changed, the first recourse would be for the owners to dip into their own pockets
This is completely correct. An absolute baboon could run this club at a profit.
