There is a fair amount of re-writing of history in this thread to align with Sheens being the club’s saviour.
@avocadoontoast I still hope Sheens gives AD another shot at 1 at some point to see if behind a good pack like he had a souths he can makes something of the fb position
Douhie's best season was the one with souths when he played fullback in the semi finals series he killed it. He came here under Madge as a fullback and was ordinary
Don't think Madge improved any of our players
Spot on. AD was really good that year for Souths. Super consistent and good defensively. It's like he's forgotten how to play.
Whilst we are imagining what is going on in other peoples heads, I dont think he has forgotten how to play, IMO he has the wrong idea of his role in the team. When he was at Souffs, he was a new kid just coming through, in a good squad. Here, I think he thinks he is the good player in a poor team and from that stems all the "I'm the no6" stuff. IMO Douiehi and Noffa and few others have to rethink and realise that they are part of the reason we are rubbish and go back to just playing their part in the team structure. Dare I say it, a leaf out of Joffas book.
I pretty much agree with what you've said, but it doesn't explain why he can't defend anymore. He was a solid defender at Souths. His defence now is atrocious.
Think that is a bit unfair Avo. He has had a serious ACL injury. The players around him have been pretty ordinary also which hasnt helped him. I think you should judge him on 2023 first 6 rounds. He's playing for a contract which is always a good time to judge a players worth.
There is a fair amount of re-writing of history in this thread to align with Sheens being the club’s saviour.
Or alternatively it is our genuine opinion. Two things can be true at once. I do not think Sheens is our saviour yet nor am I spending any time worrying about it. That will resolve itself over the next 18 months. I also think that Madge had to go and he did a very poor job of developing players.
thoughts if we miss Moses, would you be happy with the following 2024
1. RTS
2. Nofo
3. Naden
4. Ramien
5. Ken M
6. Douhie
7. Brooks
Apparently Bennett has reached out to RTS, would hope benji and Sheens at least chat to him
Just signed up after reading recent posts. I can only assume from recent posts is it’s all Madge’s fault and I’m amazed he hasn’t been blamed for the last 10 years. He only had the cattle he could afford after Cleary’s spending spree failures. Hard for players to excel/improve in an average squad that is struggling. Some can play well occasionally (Parra/Souths/nth qld), but can’t do it consistently without good quality players removed link Our squad was a bottom 4 team compared to others. No one should be pointing the finger at Madge for all the team woes.
clearys failures
Failed leaders
injuries (which comprised virtually half the squad out for up to half the season. I note sheens has also more recently raised this as a reason now his in charge)
Madge had his short comings (as all coaches do).
Just signed up after reading recent posts. I can only assume from recent posts is it’s all Madge’s fault and I’m amazed he hasn’t been blamed for the last 10 years. He only had the cattle he could afford after Cleary’s spending spree failures. Hard for players to excel/improve in an average squad that is struggling. Some can play well occasionally (Parra/Souths/nth qld), but can’t do it consistently without good quality players removed link Our squad was a bottom 4 team compared to others. No one should be pointing the finger at Madge for all the team woes.
clearys failures
Failed leaders
injuries (which comprised virtually half the squad out for up to half the season. I note sheens has also more recently raised this as a reason now his in charge)
Madge had his short comings (as all coaches do).
i genuinely dont think the recent discussion has been that its all Madges fault and I agree with the mitigating factors that you list.
The recent discussion has been whether or not Madge was successful in developing players, and improving them. Avo is of the opinion that he improved nobody. I concede that LL improved in that time but IMO no one else. Mike is strongly of the opinion that Madge improved a number of players and he listed them.
Which players do you think had sustained progression under Madges coaching?
I think it’s hard to improve/develop ‘individuals’ when the squad is poor and everyone has to worry about the player next to them.
Ute was being spoken about for Origin outsider - injury hit
AD - injury hit and had previously only performed well in a strong squad (Souths)
Brooks has performed average under any number of coaches (except one year under Cleary)
AJ Kepoa was injured a couple of times
Liddle - see above
LL - improved under Madge but was a reserve grader at St G and now a bench player at Nth Qld ( he was possibly our best player ?? says it all)
Hastings improved our team because he had football IQ that meant the other players didn’t have to ‘think’ and gave them the opportunity to think about what they needed to do - he got punted
just some examples you could go thru virtually the whole team with the majority of the squad being reserve graders from other teams with not high ceilings or outstanding form even before they arrived, especially when you put them in a struggling team, put them in the roosters or Melbourne and they could worry about their own game and develop slowly to their full potential, whatever that level may be. But Madge was hamstrung by the Cleary spending spree and was limited to reserve graders until this year
Unfortunately now Madge is gone the tigers are only now getting the quality players/leaders required to help the situation (note Madge got IP and AK , Sheens has got Klemmer for Hastings ?? and likely Bateman)
I think the player/team performance/development can’t be dumped on Madge given the circumstances
but others can see it differently
@tiger5150 Agree Madge improved LL got him fit and attacking.
I think it’s hard to improve/develop ‘individuals’ when the squad is poor and everyone has to worry about the player next to them.
Ute was being spoken about for Origin outsider - injury hit
AD - injury hit and had previously only performed well in a strong squad (Souths)
Brooks has performed average under any number of coaches (except one year under Cleary)
AJ Kepoa was injured a couple of times
Liddle - see above
LL - improved under Madge but was a reserve grader at St G and now a bench player at Nth Qld ( he was possibly our best player ?? says it all)
Hastings improved our team because he had football IQ that meant the other players didn’t have to ‘think’ and gave them the opportunity to think about what they needed to do - he got punted
just some examples you could go thru virtually the whole team with the majority of the squad being reserve graders from other teams with not high ceilings or outstanding form even before they arrived, especially when you put them in a struggling team, put them in the roosters or Melbourne and they could worry about their own game and develop slowly to their full potential, whatever that level may be. But Madge was hamstrung by the Cleary spending spree and was limited to reserve graders until this year
Unfortunately now Madge is gone the tigers are only now getting the quality players/leaders required to help the situation (note Madge got IP and AK , Sheens has got Klemmer for Hastings ?? and likely Bateman)
I think the player/team performance/development can’t be dumped on Madge given the circumstances
but others can see it differently
Welcome to the forum. I guess you can blame Madge for his shortcomings (as pretty much every coach has), but you can equally blame Cleary, Cleary could blame Taylor, Taylor could blame Potter - the coach before you either sets you up for success or failure and pretty much everyone has landed here as a coach with a basket full of troubles. I think I speak on behalf of the majority of Tigers fans in saying that we like Madge as a person, we admire his passion and application, but recognise there were/are parts of his approach that weren’t so great/effective.
Wests Tigers Podcast - Talking everything Wests Tigers!
I think it’s hard to improve/develop ‘individuals’ when the squad is poor and everyone has to worry about the player next to them.
Ute was being spoken about for Origin outsider - injury hit
AD - injury hit and had previously only performed well in a strong squad (Souths)
Brooks has performed average under any number of coaches (except one year under Cleary)
AJ Kepoa was injured a couple of times
Liddle - see above
LL - improved under Madge but was a reserve grader at St G and now a bench player at Nth Qld ( he was possibly our best player ?? says it all)
Hastings improved our team because he had football IQ that meant the other players didn’t have to ‘think’ and gave them the opportunity to think about what they needed to do - he got punted
just some examples you could go thru virtually the whole team with the majority of the squad being reserve graders from other teams with not high ceilings or outstanding form even before they arrived, especially when you put them in a struggling team, put them in the roosters or Melbourne and they could worry about their own game and develop slowly to their full potential, whatever that level may be. But Madge was hamstrung by the Cleary spending spree and was limited to reserve graders until this year
Unfortunately now Madge is gone the tigers are only now getting the quality players/leaders required to help the situation (note Madge got IP and AK , Sheens has got Klemmer for Hastings ?? and likely Bateman)
I think the player/team performance/development can’t be dumped on Madge given the circumstances
but others can see it differently
Good first post, welcome to the forum
@helmesy apparently Benji can’t blame Sheens. Will be interesting given the improved quality in the squad
@helmesy apparently Benji can’t blame Sheens. Will be interesting given the improved quality in the squad
Benji won’t have any excuses, he’s across all the recruitment decisions already (at least as far as the players who will be here when he takes the reins). It’s going to be fascinating to see how it plays out.
Wests Tigers Podcast - Talking everything Wests Tigers!
@helmesy that’s the truth. Madge had nothing to do with a 6-72 loss. The cattle he had was bad, and it was all he could get given the dire state the salary cap and club culture were in when he arrived.
”James Tedesco is ranked as one of the best fullbacks of the modern era, Joseph Suaalii and Manu are also top-shelf options at No.1, while Keary, Walker and Manu are again available in the halves. Brandon Smith arrives as first-choice hooker and Victor Radley is also regarded among the game’s best ball-playing locks.
An upgrade for Suaalii and Walker’s recent extension, along with Tedesco’s $1 million salary, means more than $700,000 has been spent on average across the seven players.“
Assuming a 10.5m salary cap this implies the other 23 players in the squad (inclusive of JWH, tupou, Crichton, tupanua etc) average $239k. What a disgrace
