Massive Manly trial wrap and analysis…
https://weststigerspodcast.com.au/wests-tigers-podcast-0141/
Wests Tigers Podcast - Talking everything Wests Tigers!
Nice podcast team. I really think Gary nailed it with his discussion on Madge and his game plan that is based in 2015 and the lack of his ability of getting the best out of the team we have. I think this 100% spot on.
Another boring anti-Madge pod. Disappointing.
I agree it's disappointing there's already Madge bashing happening and it's only been 1 trial.
While I agree with some of the concerns regarding our game style - I think focussing on game style alone is underselling the size of the problem that is trying to be fixed.
The club as a whole, over the last 10 years, has not made the finals, lacks clear identity lost connection with Juniors, is known to lack heart and character, bought ageing players with bad attitudes, etc etc
To reposition the club and team takes time. Its also a bigger issue than just madge, it's a whole.of club problem and we need a whole of club solution. We need to play the long game....
Before we address game plans we firstly need to address the issue of character.
We had too many senior players with lack of character, which Madge exposed in 2020 by dropping players and holding them accountable - which resulted in the eggshells debacle.
He's rightly moved those players on. And built a core group of promising young players who have the right character. But we are missing that senior group, evidenced by the lack of captain options, which is not easy to import over night. It's the same issue broncos have had.
But it is coming, with signings like peachy, papili'i, api, etc.
You look at a team like parra. Lots of great players, but as a team they lack character to go on an win a grand final.
I believe we are taking some pain now, to build that character and culture, which will reap rewards over rather next 4-5 years as our young group become the core senior group.
Top 8 2023
Another boring anti-Madge pod. Disappointing.
I'm not being anti madge.
In memory of Geoff Chisholm (1965-2022)
Yeah you are.
Thanks for reading out my comment Eddie!
I enjoyed the podcast. Most of the comments are pretty accurate IMO but I do think the criticism of Tuki is unfair.
He played in the middle in reggies last year and whenever he came in for NRL action.
He looked like someone who'd been told he was a prop until about a week ago when Blore went down. If he had been given more notice about the plan to play him on the edge then isnt it reasonable to conclude he'd drop weight?
The guy has an amazing offload in him. With good coaching he could be a great player but under Madge its not clear whether he is an edge or a middle?
The same could be said about Seyfarth. If someone asked Madge 'where do Seyfarth and Tuki play?" I bet he would say something like 'they are handy players in both roles and you need those players IN AND AROUND your club."
The discussion about Brooks running was good. I actually think Brooks running game will make him and Hastings (who maybe passes first) a good fit.
On the captain point - theres a clear lack of leadership at the club based on the fox documentary last year. Nobody says anything. There's no clear standout
Yeah you are.
No I'm not, I want him to be successful as that is the only way we can have success. The issue is our roster is not able to play a style of game that has a strong opportunity to be successful in the modern game, we lack high impact forwards. I would not sack Madge at this time, in fact I wouldn't sack him during this season.
In memory of Geoff Chisholm (1965-2022)
Thanks for reading out my comment Eddie!
I enjoyed the podcast. Most of the comments are pretty accurate IMO but I do think the criticism of Tuki is unfair.
He played in the middle in reggies last year and whenever he came in for NRL action.
He looked like someone who'd been told he was a prop until about a week ago when Blore went down. If he had been given more notice about the plan to play him on the edge then isnt it reasonable to conclude he'd drop weight?
The guy has an amazing offload in him. With good coaching he could be a great player but under Madge its not clear whether he is an edge or a middle?
The same could be said about Seyfarth. If someone asked Madge 'where do Seyfarth and Tuki play?" I bet he would say something like 'they are handy players in both roles and you need those players IN AND AROUND your club."
The discussion about Brooks running was good. I actually think Brooks running game will make him and Hastings (who maybe passes first) a good fit.
On the captain point - theres a clear lack of leadership at the club based on the fox documentary last year. Nobody says anything. There's no clear standout
You could very well be right about Tuki, I have high expectations for him this year and if we are going to successful we need him to take a massive step forward in his development. That may have made me overly critical of his game on Friday night.
In memory of Geoff Chisholm (1965-2022)
I would put myself in the Madge supporters bucket, and over time in the brooks supporter bucket. But Gary’s comments resonated with me because it was something that I was feeling late last year. Maybe he was the right coach at the wrong time, maybe he is just inflexible and running a very dated game plan he copied off Bellamy and never evolved. I think he brings passion to the table and that’s why I think he is the perfect rep footy coach (just bring together a group of talented/motivated players into a camp and build some cohesion in a short period via some stirring speeches) but from watching Madge coaches teams closely for 3 years I just don’t see him as being a sophisticated or talented that can get the most out of the players he has or is able to adjust his game plan to the changing direction of the competition. I wish it was different but nothing I saw last Friday convinced me differently. I hope he proves me wrong this year
I would put myself in the Madge supporters bucket, and over time in the brooks supporter bucket. But Gary’s comments resonated with me because it was something that I was feeling late last year. Maybe he was the right coach at the wrong time, maybe he is just inflexible and running a very dated game plan he copied off Bellamy and never evolved. I think he brings passion to the table and that’s why I think he is the perfect rep footy coach (just bring together a group of talented/motivated players into a camp and build some cohesion in a short period via some stirring speeches) but from watching Madge coaches teams closely for 3 years I just don’t see him as being a sophisticated or talented that can get the most out of the players he has or is able to adjust his game plan to the changing direction of the competition. I wish it was different but nothing I saw last Friday convinced me differently. I hope he proves me wrong this year
We definitely don't play a style of game that is suited to the modern game, now its hard to determine whether that comes down to players or the coach, in my opinion it is probably a little bit of both. We lack the high impact forwards that would allow us to play the uptempo eyes up footy type of game that the strong teams are playing, but I still think we are far too reliant on blockplays even though they are the best way to breakdown the set defences we are seeing.
Maybe everything changes when Hastings runs onto the field on Friday night. I will also say we looked much better when Peachey was on the field and things reverted to 2021 style when he went off after 20 mins.
In memory of Geoff Chisholm (1965-2022)
I would put myself in the Madge supporters bucket, and over time in the brooks supporter bucket. But Gary’s comments resonated with me because it was something that I was feeling late last year. Maybe he was the right coach at the wrong time, maybe he is just inflexible and running a very dated game plan he copied off Bellamy and never evolved. I think he brings passion to the table and that’s why I think he is the perfect rep footy coach (just bring together a group of talented/motivated players into a camp and build some cohesion in a short period via some stirring speeches) but from watching Madge coaches teams closely for 3 years I just don’t see him as being a sophisticated or talented that can get the most out of the players he has or is able to adjust his game plan to the changing direction of the competition. I wish it was different but nothing I saw last Friday convinced me differently. I hope he proves me wrong this year
We definitely don't play a style of game that is suited to the modern game, now its hard to determine whether that comes down to players or the coach, in my opinion it is probably a little bit of both. We lack the high impact forwards that would allow us to play the uptempo eyes up footy type of game that the strong teams are playing, but I still think we are far too reliant on blockplays even though they are the best way to breakdown the set defences we are seeing.
Maybe everything changes when Hastings runs onto the field on Friday night. I will also say we looked much better when Peachey was on the field and things reverted to 2021 style when he went off after 20 mins.
Agree, we don't have the size atm in the forwards or the outside backs to get get the opposition rolling back and attack the retreating defence.
Block plays haven't been working for us
There are other ways to attack a broken line which we can explore -
- the first one is late offloads - we have LL and Tuki who are both great at them - the issue has been we haven't known how to attack off the back of them. But I think Hastings will hopefully address this, as he will hang around the ruck and is pushing up in support.
- the other is the look to play outside and then play inside ball - which both brooks and AD did well in certain parts of last year
- forwards passing late at the line is another, which I saw we started at the trial on the weekend
- lastly, with AD, Brooks, Hastings and Peachy we will essentially have 4 halves playing 6, 7, 13 & either 14 or 3. I'm really keen to see what style we can play with 4 halves on the field at once, particularly with Laurie chiming in
Top 8 2023
I would put myself in the Madge supporters bucket, and over time in the brooks supporter bucket. But Gary’s comments resonated with me because it was something that I was feeling late last year. Maybe he was the right coach at the wrong time, maybe he is just inflexible and running a very dated game plan he copied off Bellamy and never evolved. I think he brings passion to the table and that’s why I think he is the perfect rep footy coach (just bring together a group of talented/motivated players into a camp and build some cohesion in a short period via some stirring speeches) but from watching Madge coaches teams closely for 3 years I just don’t see him as being a sophisticated or talented that can get the most out of the players he has or is able to adjust his game plan to the changing direction of the competition. I wish it was different but nothing I saw last Friday convinced me differently. I hope he proves me wrong this year
We definitely don't play a style of game that is suited to the modern game, now its hard to determine whether that comes down to players or the coach, in my opinion it is probably a little bit of both. We lack the high impact forwards that would allow us to play the uptempo eyes up footy type of game that the strong teams are playing, but I still think we are far too reliant on blockplays even though they are the best way to breakdown the set defences we are seeing.
Maybe everything changes when Hastings runs onto the field on Friday night. I will also say we looked much better when Peachey was on the field and things reverted to 2021 style when he went off after 20 mins.
There's plenty of stats out there to support what you are saying as well mate. You nailed it with the comments at about 54 min in the podcast.
https://twitter.com/LeagueEyeTest/status/1435568923575865348?s=20
If blokes like Twal Tamou and Seyfarth only ever get held up in the wrestle and never hit the line hard we'll continue to struggle.
Conversely I saw Taniela Paseka dent the line on almost every carry last Friday. He splits the defenders, lands on his front and gets the d-line retreating.
With Hastings I think we can expect to see a bit more variety in 5th tackle options. He has a good kicking game whereas Brooks can be good and bad with the boot
I would put myself in the Madge supporters bucket, and over time in the brooks supporter bucket. But Gary’s comments resonated with me because it was something that I was feeling late last year. Maybe he was the right coach at the wrong time, maybe he is just inflexible and running a very dated game plan he copied off Bellamy and never evolved. I think he brings passion to the table and that’s why I think he is the perfect rep footy coach (just bring together a group of talented/motivated players into a camp and build some cohesion in a short period via some stirring speeches) but from watching Madge coaches teams closely for 3 years I just don’t see him as being a sophisticated or talented that can get the most out of the players he has or is able to adjust his game plan to the changing direction of the competition. I wish it was different but nothing I saw last Friday convinced me differently. I hope he proves me wrong this year
We definitely don't play a style of game that is suited to the modern game, now its hard to determine whether that comes down to players or the coach, in my opinion it is probably a little bit of both. We lack the high impact forwards that would allow us to play the uptempo eyes up footy type of game that the strong teams are playing, but I still think we are far too reliant on blockplays even though they are the best way to breakdown the set defences we are seeing.
Maybe everything changes when Hastings runs onto the field on Friday night. I will also say we looked much better when Peachey was on the field and things reverted to 2021 style when he went off after 20 mins.
Agree, we don't have the size atm in the forwards or the outside backs to get get the opposition rolling back and attack the retreating defence.
Block plays haven't been working for us
There are other ways to attack a broken line which we can explore -
- the first one is late offloads - we have LL and Tuki who are both great at them - the issue has been we haven't known how to attack off the back of them. But I think Hastings will hopefully address this, as he will hang around the ruck and is pushing up in support.
- the other is the look to play outside and then play inside ball - which both brooks and AD did well in certain parts of last year
- forwards passing late at the line is another, which I saw we started at the trial on the weekend
- lastly, with AD, Brooks, Hastings and Peachy we will essentially have 4 halves playing 6, 7, 13 & either 14 or 3. I'm really keen to see what style we can play with 4 halves on the field at once, particularly with Laurie chiming in
I agree with your suggestions here. If we dont' have forwards with a strong hit up in them then I feel a combination of short passing/offloads are the way to go. I dont really care what it is but I just want to watch a tigers game and go "Ok I can see they are trying something different here'
An example of this at another club - Justin Holbrook often has the Titans passing wide early on in the tackle count. I think its a good tactic because if you can get over your 40m line by tackle 3 the game will potentially open up for you with 6 again.
@Mike, I’ve given Maguire three years and there are no signs he’s turning this around.
He should have been gone at the end of 2021 and keeping him is just going to delay the pain/decision a bit longer.
Wests Tigers Podcast - Talking everything Wests Tigers!
