- @avocadoontoast 🤬🤮
Sheens can do a couple of things:
1) run rings around the club politics. The Board will revere him. The club was at its most stable in the 2005-2010 years when sheens dominated the club
2) he can shepherd through some younger players with more time to manage the transition because he already has the credibility in the media etc
3) he can re-set the club relationships with the player managers as he wasn’t here when we blew up the big 4, Cleary panic era etc. whilst there won’t be many players that are still around from his last coaching period he would be much more credible if you are a young talented player (come get coached by one of the last super coaches etc).
4) he is old so it’s by definition not a long term gig. If he stabilises the performance of the club on the fields and if all the stories about how strong we are off the field are true then in 18/24 months we should be an excellent place for the next young gun coach to come (ie similar to where the sharks are now).
I'm open to Sheens coaching - only if with a plan to mentor an up and coming coach with clear transition plan.
However it presents as many questions as it does answers:
- who will be GM of football?
- board has pretty much said they take Sheens word as gospel as he knows football better than them, so who advises the board on the coach if Sheens is the coach?
- what happens to the whole fo football club transformation into a development club - if Sheens is focussed on NRL team?
Top 8 2023
I'm open to Sheens coaching - only if with a plan to mentor an up and coming coach with clear transition plan.
However it presents as many questions as it does answers:
- who will be GM of football?
- board has pretty much said they take Sheens word as gospel as he knows football better than them, so who advises the board on the coach if Sheens is the coach?
- what happens to the whole fo football club transformation into a development club - if Sheens is focussed on NRL team?
I'm open to Sheens coaching too. I think he's probably our best option at the moment to try and steady the ship and get us competitive again. The questions you ask are very relevant though. We have Betsey, Kimmorley and Lambkin who are all pretty involved in pathways (as far as I know) so I don't think the focus on development will change - I think that will progress as normal.
Your other two questions though - I have absolutely no idea.
@avocadoontoast oh God no lol
Just had the thought that they might be gearing up for Sheens to coach with a plan to handover to Noddy.
I hope not but. I would like to see Woolfe. Something different
Just as a devils advocate for Tim Sheens as coach - see the wiki entry on Sheens UK coaching record below. Lost the dressing room at Hull KR and fell out with management at Widnes after 7 games. Although he won 49 games out of 85.
In September 2016 [3] it was announced that he would join Hull Kingston Rovers for season 2017 and beyond. In Sheens first year at the club, he coached the Hull Kingston Rovers in their promotion back to Super League campaign of 2017. After 2 years at Hull KR, Sheens was sacked due to poor league position, form and loss of 'the dressing room' (implying player support) on 5 June 2019.
Widnes Vikings
On 13 Oct 2020 it was announced that Sheens had resigned as club head coach due to a falling out with management over staffing
Top 8 2023
Just had the thought that they might be gearing up for Sheens to coach with a plan to handover to Noddy.
I hope not but. I would like to see Woolfe. Something different
My fear with Woolf is he stepped into a ready made team in St Helens. They won the year before with Holbrook coaching and only lost 3 games all season. This is a very very different situation than the one he stepped into.
Definite no to Noddy as head coach. Doesn't seem to have what it takes at all.
Just had the thought that they might be gearing up for Sheens to coach with a plan to handover to Noddy.
I hope not but. I would like to see Woolfe. Something different
My fear with Woolf is he stepped into a ready made team in St Helens. They won the year before with Holbrook coaching and only lost 3 games all season. This is a very very different situation than the one he stepped into.
Definite no to Noddy as head coach. Doesn't seem to have what it takes at all.
That's a fair concern when you see Holbrook at Titans.
But Woolf has had a very long apprenticeship. Plus what he's done with Tonga has to be recognised.
I think Watson has the best resume of taking underpefoming clubs to the top - of any available coach.
Just don't think he'll have the media support or player attractiveness of woolf or Sheens- because he's English and from the UK - so no Aussies will no him
Top 8 2023
@helmesy who is the guy from the Roosters ?
Looks like Cliffy Young this dude 😂🤣
Are these two related
When Tim Sheens answered an SOS to help rebuild the club that sacked him, there was never an ambition to do so as a coach.
The job, as Wests Tigers’ head of football performance, was initially to assist Michael Maguire and then, when it was decided the Kiwis coach couldn’t complete the rebuild, to find his replacement. Now there’s a growing belief at Concord that the best man for the job is the one they sacked a decade ago.
Having failed in their pursuit of promising Panthers assistant Cameron Ciraldo, there is no standout candidate available. Brett Kimmorley is yet to register a win in his first three attempts as caretaker ahead of a showdown with Parramatta, thwarting his prospects of retaining the gig long term. Another Penrith assistant, Andrew Webster, was crossed off a shortlist that includes Josh Hannay, Kristian Woolf, Dean Young, Shane Flanagan and John Morris after replacing Nathan Brown at the Warriors on a three-year deal.
The job is a big one for any man, let alone a 71-year-old who hasn’t coached in the NRL since the Tigers last speared him. However, some with sway at the club feel the best person is the one right in front of them.
Those sentiments have been relayed to Sheens. Those close to the four-time premiership-winning mentor said his preference is to appoint a younger coach, who would be given the time and support required to lift the team back up the ladder. However, the position is his if he wants it or a better candidate can’t be found.
No one knows the strengths and weaknesses of the current roster better than the former Panthers, Raiders and Cowboys coach. Sheens was at the helm when the Tigers notched their breakthrough 2005 premiership with a team that included the likes of Benji Marshall and Robbie Farah. The Tigers hierarchy believe they have a similarly talented crop of youngsters in their system - the Magpies Harold Matthews side recently took out the premiership - and that Sheens is the best person to develop them into first-graders.
The process won’t happen overnight. The addition of Apisai Koroisau and Isaiah Papali’i from next season will strengthen the side, but they alone won’t be enough to end a decade-long finals drought. It could take several years for promising juniors including Funa Pole, Justin Matamua, Sione Fainu, Cayne Nicholas, Finnley Neilson, Emmanuel Di Bartolo and Joseph Delle to become regular first-graders.
There are more pressing concerns, including what to do with maligned playmaker Luke Brooks, whose salary surges into seven-figure territory next year. Jackson Hastings remains unsigned beyond next season, Adam Doueihi is yet to ease back into his favourite pivot spot and former NSW utility Tyrone Peachey can’t crack a side sitting only just above the Titans on for-and-against.
They are the type of challenges that have been beyond Mick Potter, Jason Taylor, Ivan Cleary and Maguire, the four coaches who have come and gone since Sheens himself was axed in 2012. It’s why Ciraldo, despite the lure of a five-year tenure and a new centre of excellence at his disposal, politely declined. Instead, he is scheduled to meet with the Panthers about extending his stay at the foot of the mountains, most likely on a one-year deal.
There are more pressing concerns, including what to do with maligned playmaker Luke Brooks, whose salary surges into seven-figure territory next year. Jackson Hastings remains unsigned beyond next season, Adam Doueihi is yet to ease back into his favourite pivot spot and former NSW utility Tyrone Peachey can’t crack a side sitting only just above the Titans on for-and-against.
It leaves the Tigers at yet another crossroads. Do they go for an up-and-comer in the form of Hannay or Woolf, a premiership winner in Paul Green or Flanagan or the most experienced coach of them all aside from Wayne Bennett?
Perhaps Sheens is the easiest sell to long-suffering fans, whose memories of his halcyon days at the Tigers may be stronger than his final ones. None of the powerbrokers responsible for his termination, a move that prompted a legal challenge and, ultimately, a payout, remain at Concord. The problem now appears to be the solution. The likes of Benji Marshall, Ricky Stuart and Mal Meninga have already said as much.
If the former NSW and Australian coach takes the role he will do so fully aware of the enormity of the task ahead. His most recent coaching stints, with Hull Kingston Rovers and Widnes Vikings in the English Super League, are a timely reminder that some causes are lost.
Is Sheens’ knowledge, garnered over the course of more than 50 years in the game, of most use to the Tigers in his current role or his previous one? It’s a question the Tigers are currently weighing up. Perhaps the more pertinent question is whether Sheens, at a time when most in his vintage are winding down, is prepared to stick his head back into the furnace when NRL coaching is at its most cutthroat. We are about to get our answer.
Wests Tigers Podcast - Talking everything Wests Tigers!
When we contacted Sheens about the push for the coach who guided the Wests Tigers to the club’s last premiership in 2005 to return he was quick to shoot it down.
“It’s not the club’s preferred position and it’s not particularly a road I want to go down,” Sheens said.
Also says that John Morris' agent has been contacted about an interview.
If Ciraldo says no 2 weeks ago what has the club been doing between now and then? They must have been making enquiries somewhere? If Sheens took journalists to Grappa last week what was the message to them then?
There seems to be plenty of people with inside knowledge ruling Todd Payten out but it does seem a little unusual that he has not signed a contract extension up there with the club well and truly firing? There hasn't even been one 'contract extension for Payten' article in more than 3 weeks. Payten and Sheens are super tight.
When we contacted Sheens about the push for the coach who guided the Wests Tigers to the club’s last premiership in 2005 to return he was quick to shoot it down.
“It’s not the club’s preferred position and it’s not particularly a road I want to go down,” Sheens said.
Also says that John Morris' agent has been contacted about an interview.
If Ciraldo says no 2 weeks ago what has the club been doing between now and then? They must have been making enquiries somewhere? If Sheens took journalists to Grappa last week what was the message to them then?
There seems to be plenty of people with inside knowledge ruling Todd Payten out but it does seem a little unusual that he has not signed a contract extension up there with the club well and truly firing? There hasn't even been one 'contract extension for Payten' article in more than 3 weeks. Payten and Sheens are super tight.
If it’s on the boil it’s certainly one of rugby league’s best kept secrets.
Wests Tigers Podcast - Talking everything Wests Tigers!
When we contacted Sheens about the push for the coach who guided the Wests Tigers to the club’s last premiership in 2005 to return he was quick to shoot it down.
“It’s not the club’s preferred position and it’s not particularly a road I want to go down,” Sheens said.
Also says that John Morris' agent has been contacted about an interview.
If Ciraldo says no 2 weeks ago what has the club been doing between now and then? They must have been making enquiries somewhere? If Sheens took journalists to Grappa last week what was the message to them then?
There seems to be plenty of people with inside knowledge ruling Todd Payten out but it does seem a little unusual that he has not signed a contract extension up there with the club well and truly firing? There hasn't even been one 'contract extension for Payten' article in more than 3 weeks. Payten and Sheens are super tight.
I think the 2 weeks has been used for Sheens to get some support for the HC role, which he's seemingly got now from a number of parties.
