Mid season last year we had options.
Hastings & Brooks
Brooks & AD
Hastings & AD
Brooks & AD & Hastings at 13
Or keep one and bring in some new class.
We were in control of our own destiny
Now:
- we moved on Hastings
- AD has long term injury
- Brooks proven he needs to play with a decent 7 if he has any chance of staying in NRL
And now we are at the football gods graces in the hope of finding a 7. And we all know the footy gods have not been kind to WT
I actually dont put Hastings that much ahead of Wakeham tbh. Not sure the situation would be much better.
I actually dont put Hastings that much ahead of Wakeham tbh. Not sure the situation would be much better.
Hastings is slow and seemingly a bit of a prickly character. He does however know how to organise a team and whilst not very dynamic he can play the role of halfback better than anything we have had in our team for a decade. Benji/sheens placed AD/brooks above him in the halves pecking order and now there is a good chance neither of those will be our long term halves options. If he was playing at 7 this year, even if signed elsewhere for next year (genuine 7s are rare in the current game, he definitely would have been picked up elsewhere if Newcastle bailed) then we would probably be 3/6 and in a much better position to recruit where we desperately need external talent (1/6/7). The longer we stink it up this year the less likely we are to be able to recruit quality and the more a risk we are for any up and coming 7 who doesn’t want to end up spat out to super league in a couple of years.
I’m really not sure what is best for this team for the balance of 2023. It seems there are 3 options:
1) play wakeham as the 7 and get brooks to play the traditional 6 role (not 2 5/8ths) like he did with Hastings last year
2) play matamua as 1st receiver (lock) and then play 2 5/8ths (brooks and wakeham/Laurie)
3) brooks at 7/Laurie at 6.
At this point I probably favour seeing how option 2 works given matamua has been on the fringe of 1st grade for a while now and our season is gone anyway.
isn’t option 2 just playing Matumua as halfback? I was always coached that first receiver was your halfback no matter the number on their back?
if that’s the option, who plays lock?
isn’t option 2 just playing Matumua as halfback? I was always coached that first receiver was your halfback no matter the number on their back?
if that’s the option, who plays lock?
I guess it’s a version of Hastings at lock ie defend at lock and distributor in attack with option to hit up if needed but no kicking duties.
In the games Hastings played this role he was making 40tackles in the middle and then also asked to play almost complete 7 in attack. Matamua has the frame to play more in the Yeo mould but his decision making in that role last year was a bit sub par.
To me the reason we suck in attack is because the systems we are using are old school up tempo, over the advantage line .
This is fully dependant on a dynamic half with speed and agility/ power in the outside backs. And it’s especially dependant on forwards either getting quick play the balls , or busting through the line creating staggered defences . Therefore creating quick play the balls just by inevitability .
The issue we have is , it was much easier to find players out of the 90s with this touch footy type mentality , than it is now . Because of how rigid attacking structures have been for the last 10-15 years . Brought on by the domination of defence in the modern game .
My point in all this is , until we find a dynamic half , it doesn’t actually have to be an organising half . As much as everyone thinks this is the problem .
the problem is someone who can scream for the ball at the right moments and create huge dramas in the defence . Benji was the A prototype of this . Seriously , in another sliding door , Tui Lolohea wasn’t a lazy trainer , because that kid had exactly what we needed , and it’s a real shame he just didn’t have the killer instinct to truely maximise his potential . Because for this current style , he’s literally what I’m talking about .
Honestly I’d be scouring NZ junior rugby union , because that whole sport is played like this . Spontaneous front foot football , with block play rigidity no where near the influence , despite recent influences in Australia .
It’s where we plucked benji from , it’s where Johnson was plucked from , it’s where Tui came from .
They’re over there . There’s gotta be a benji type , not quite right for union , but completely not screwed up by NRL obsession with the block play .
@tiger5150 In my view he’s streets ahead of Wakeham and purely from a mental perspective before one gets into other attributes.Hastings has self-belief,poise,and a complete indifference to adversity.He has a never-say-die disposition and will play out the juncture of a game to the 80th minute.He’s never intimidated and plays in the moment and never dwells on a mistake or allows one to permeate his composure.When he first came to WTigers it was palpably obvious.I was rejoicing,Hallelujah we’ve finally found someone to push us around the park.I was in utter disbelief and disgust when we let him go and still am to a point.
Whatever Brandon Wakeham is,and I don’t want to be disparaging of him,I just don’t believe he has the bearing nor authority to impact the team like JH.I would love him to prove wrong though.
We need an experienced and fast 7?
https://au.sports.yahoo.com/dragons-mbye-says-futures-not-010000357.html
Top 8 2023
@tiger5150 it’s horrible because there are no halves available and even the club seemingly have no idea what to do. When they released Hastings I figured they had something solid in place or Brooks was absolutely carving it up on the paddock to the extent there was no risk releasing Hastings. Evidently we shot for the stars with Moses and Williams and now we’re left with absolutely nothing.
for most clubs they do the little things right. we just go for hail Mary’s and if it doesn’t work just shrug our shoulders and say ‘oh well, we’re trying - off field has never been better’
Whatever Brandon Wakeham is,and I don’t want to be disparaging of him,I just don’t believe he has the bearing nor authority to impact the team like JH.I would love him to prove wrong though.
he’ll probably disappoint me but the only game we ever saw wakeham play7 was the trial (yes, yes only a trial etc). Playing him at 6 outside brooks is mind numbing stupidity in my view and I completely disagree when sheens says “it doesnt matter these days”. Does DCE play 7 or 6? Reynolds? Hughes? It’s about intent and I don’t want brooks being the one running our sets. I would like to see wakeham as the designated 7 and build a game plan around him as first receiver. It’s only a short term plan but the earlier we get brooks out of running the team the better
@tiger5150 it’s horrible because there are no halves available and even the club seemingly have no idea what to do. When they released Hastings I figured they had something solid in place or Brooks was absolutely carving it up on the paddock to the extent there was no risk releasing Hastings. Evidently we shot for the stars with Moses and Williams and now we’re left with absolutely nothing.
for most clubs they do the little things right. we just go for hail Mary’s and if it doesn’t work just shrug our shoulders and say ‘oh well, we’re trying - off field has never been better’
No argument with any of that Avo. What does any of that have to do with Pascoes comment?
I actually dont put Hastings that much ahead of Wakeham tbh. Not sure the situation would be much better.
Hastings is slow and seemingly a bit of a prickly character. He does however know how to organise a team and whilst not very dynamic he can play the role of halfback better than anything we have had in our team for a decade. Benji/sheens placed AD/brooks above him in the halves pecking order and now there is a good chance neither of those will be our long term halves options. If he was playing at 7 this year, even if signed elsewhere for next year (genuine 7s are rare in the current game, he definitely would have been picked up elsewhere if Newcastle bailed) then we would probably be 3/6 and in a much better position to recruit where we desperately need external talent (1/6/7). The longer we stink it up this year the less likely we are to be able to recruit quality and the more a risk we are for any up and coming 7 who doesn’t want to end up spat out to super league in a couple of years.
I’m really not sure what is best for this team for the balance of 2023. It seems there are 3 options:
1) play wakeham as the 7 and get brooks to play the traditional 6 role (not 2 5/8ths) like he did with Hastings last year
2) play matamua as 1st receiver (lock) and then play 2 5/8ths (brooks and wakeham/Laurie)
3) brooks at 7/Laurie at 6.
At this point I probably favour seeing how option 2 works given matamua has been on the fringe of 1st grade for a while now and our season is gone anyway.
Lots of "ifs" in there. IMO claiming we would be 3/6 is a massively optimistic call. You do realise that we only won 4 games last year? Hastings was 3/16. Im not sure Hastings would have been the cure all people think.
Whatever Brandon Wakeham is,and I don’t want to be disparaging of him,I just don’t believe he has the bearing nor authority to impact the team like JH.I would love him to prove wrong though.
he’ll probably disappoint me but the only game we ever saw wakeham play7 was the trial (yes, yes only a trial etc). Playing him at 6 outside brooks is mind numbing stupidity in my view and I completely disagree when sheens says “it doesnt matter these days”. Does DCE play 7 or 6? Reynolds? Hughes? It’s about intent and I don’t want brooks being the one running our sets. I would like to see wakeham as the designated 7 and build a game plan around him as first receiver. It’s only a short term plan but the earlier we get brooks out of running the team the better
Not having a go at you SFS, but this argument drives me crazy. Tigers are playing left / right halves. If the ball goes right, with Wakeham playing with a 6 on his back, he is first receiver. On the few times they (usually left) sweep the same wide, Wakeham was first (or earlier) receiver.
@tiger5150 it’s horrible because there are no halves available and even the club seemingly have no idea what to do. When they released Hastings I figured they had something solid in place or Brooks was absolutely carving it up on the paddock to the extent there was no risk releasing Hastings. Evidently we shot for the stars with Moses and Williams and now we’re left with absolutely nothing.
for most clubs they do the little things right. we just go for hail Mary’s and if it doesn’t work just shrug our shoulders and say ‘oh well, we’re trying - off field has never been better’
No argument with any of that Avo. What does any of that have to do with Pascoes comment?
my comment was more about the dire situation we’re in rather than Pascoe himself.
I actually dont put Hastings that much ahead of Wakeham tbh. Not sure the situation would be much better.
Hastings is slow and seemingly a bit of a prickly character. He does however know how to organise a team and whilst not very dynamic he can play the role of halfback better than anything we have had in our team for a decade. Benji/sheens placed AD/brooks above him in the halves pecking order and now there is a good chance neither of those will be our long term halves options. If he was playing at 7 this year, even if signed elsewhere for next year (genuine 7s are rare in the current game, he definitely would have been picked up elsewhere if Newcastle bailed) then we would probably be 3/6 and in a much better position to recruit where we desperately need external talent (1/6/7). The longer we stink it up this year the less likely we are to be able to recruit quality and the more a risk we are for any up and coming 7 who doesn’t want to end up spat out to super league in a couple of years.
I’m really not sure what is best for this team for the balance of 2023. It seems there are 3 options:
1) play wakeham as the 7 and get brooks to play the traditional 6 role (not 2 5/8ths) like he did with Hastings last year
2) play matamua as 1st receiver (lock) and then play 2 5/8ths (brooks and wakeham/Laurie)
3) brooks at 7/Laurie at 6.
At this point I probably favour seeing how option 2 works given matamua has been on the fringe of 1st grade for a while now and our season is gone anyway.
Lots of "ifs" in there. IMO claiming we would be 3/6 is a massively optimistic call. You do realise that we only won 4 games last year? Hastings was 3/16. Im not sure Hastings would have been the cure all people think.
massively optimistic?
if Hastings plays for us we beat Newcastle (because he doesn’t play against us and Newcastle we’re decimated that game). We would have beaten parramatta imho given the avalanche of possession and statistical dominance but lack of finish in the 20. I also think it’s reasonable to say that we beat titans at home at Leichhardt round 1 with a big off season designed around Hastings 7/brooks 6.
it’s all fantasy football but I don’t thinks it’s a massive call. With the bye that puts you in 9th at worst.
Hastings wasn’t the messiah, but we are now left looking to try to poach a reserve grader from a stronger club.
I actually dont put Hastings that much ahead of Wakeham tbh. Not sure the situation would be much better.
Hastings is slow and seemingly a bit of a prickly character. He does however know how to organise a team and whilst not very dynamic he can play the role of halfback better than anything we have had in our team for a decade. Benji/sheens placed AD/brooks above him in the halves pecking order and now there is a good chance neither of those will be our long term halves options. If he was playing at 7 this year, even if signed elsewhere for next year (genuine 7s are rare in the current game, he definitely would have been picked up elsewhere if Newcastle bailed) then we would probably be 3/6 and in a much better position to recruit where we desperately need external talent (1/6/7). The longer we stink it up this year the less likely we are to be able to recruit quality and the more a risk we are for any up and coming 7 who doesn’t want to end up spat out to super league in a couple of years.
I’m really not sure what is best for this team for the balance of 2023. It seems there are 3 options:
1) play wakeham as the 7 and get brooks to play the traditional 6 role (not 2 5/8ths) like he did with Hastings last year
2) play matamua as 1st receiver (lock) and then play 2 5/8ths (brooks and wakeham/Laurie)
3) brooks at 7/Laurie at 6.
At this point I probably favour seeing how option 2 works given matamua has been on the fringe of 1st grade for a while now and our season is gone anyway.
Lots of "ifs" in there. IMO claiming we would be 3/6 is a massively optimistic call. You do realise that we only won 4 games last year? Hastings was 3/16. Im not sure Hastings would have been the cure all people think.
massively optimistic?
if Hastings plays for us we beat Newcastle (because he doesn’t play against us and Newcastle we’re decimated that game). We would have beaten parramatta imho given the avalanche of possession and statistical dominance but lack of finish in the 20. I also think it’s reasonable to say that we beat titans at home at Leichhardt round 1 with a big off season designed around Hastings 7/brooks 6.
it’s all fantasy football but I don’t thinks it’s a massive call. With the bye that puts you in 9th at worst.
Hastings wasn’t the messiah, but we are now left looking to try to poach a reserve grader from a stronger club.
You would have noted the IMO at the start of my sentence. Dont get me wrong, in our current situation I would rather Hastings be here, but again IMO it probably wouldnt have made that much of a difference. All the things people imagine he would have done for us, particularly "in the 20", he didnt do for us last year. 3/16 last year but would have been 3/6 this year? IMO thats unlikely.
your last sentence says it all for me and to an extent, why Im ok with taking the hit on Hastings. Im extremely nervous about poaching a reserve grader to fix our problem because it has the potential to nail us to the bottom 9 for an extended period. Hastings likewise was never going to fill that position. If we had Hastings on any sort of extended deal, its accepting mediocrity (same as Brooks). Before anyone screams about THIS year, I agree, in hindsight, that it would be good to have Hastings right now, but would you have him if it meant we didnt have Klemmer & Bateman which is potentially the situation. If we had Hastings without Klemmer & Bateman, I dont see how we are any better than last year, where we won 4 games (3/26 with Hastings).
