Apparently we released him before NQ agreed and before the release was registered with the NRL. Are we the most incompetent organisation in the world?
Cowboys Head of Football also spoke on SEN this morning. He basically said that the Tigers released him when they haven’t even come to an agreement on who pays what for this year.
Absolute amateurs. Such an unprofessional organisation headed up by Lee & Pascoe
I've said it a million times before - Pascoe is not up to running a professional sporting team. He's a moron.
Possibly true, but two things can be true at once....
Let me throw a hypothetical at you....
LL is on $ 600,000.00 per year (plucked the figure out of the air). The season is half done. Luki gets injured and Cowboys knock on the door. Cowboys do their maths and figure he will cost approx $300k on the cap this year. Cowboys, LL and agent knock on Tigers door..."Will you release LL form his contract so he can come to us?".
What if......LL's contract is massively backended. What if....when cowboys, LL & agent asked to be released the Tigers simply said "Yep....ok"?
Wouldn't this hypothetical scenario play out pretty much as it is now? Why is this all of a sudden the Tigers problem?
Do you think announcing the release of a player prior to lodging the release with the NRL and prior to agreeing to numbers with the team he's going to is good business? Or do you think it's further evidence that Pascoe is a massive idiot? I'm going with option 2.
Why do the Tigers have to agree to numbers with the team he is going to? He has a Contract with us and he wants an immediate release. If it suits the Tigers, you both sign and then its done. He no longer has a Contract with the Wests Tigers. Everything after that is up to LL & NQ.
Why would any of it be Tigers problem or evidence of poor management?
Edit : To answer your question more directly, if LL's Contract was back ended and LL & his agent asked for an immediate release and signed the release, then that would be genius management by Pascoe et al and poor by LL's agent and NQ. Again, not the Tigers problem.
Yes but you're creating a whole lot of hypotheticals to support your point which are simply hypotheticals you've invented for that purpose. What we know for sure is this:
1. We announce via our website we've released him stating in the release "He will now join the Cowboys for the remainder of this season."
2. NQ football Manager Michael Luck goes on radio this morning and said they had simply "asked the question" whether there was a chance of getting him early. There was nothing in writing and nothing even advanced for that matter.
Have you ever seen this happen before with any other professional club or even amateur club?
I completely disagree with you. Yes I have provided a hypothetical above in which it would have been a great bit of management (saving on a backended deal) but you do not need a hypothetical in this case, the fact and the truth bear it out.
LL had a Contract to play NRL with the Wests Tigers. LL and his manager approached the Tigers and asked for an immediate release from his playing Contract. The Tigers granted him an immediate release from his Contract. Full stop, period, end of story. There is nothing hypothetical in this.
Everything that comes after that has NOTHING to do with the Wests Tigers. If NQ dont have room for him under the cap, thats a sad story for NQ & LL. It is not the Wests Tigers problem and I cant see where or why the Tigers have a liability or an obligation.
That's fine that you disagree, but I think it's another example of incompetence by an administration that have a strong record of unprofessionalism. We literally sent out a statement saying he was released to go and play for the Cowboys which, at the time, was not true. It's just garbage stuff from a bunch of amateurs pretending to be business leaders. Pascoe is a complete moron who has no place running a professional sports team.
Totally fine that we have differing opinions on this, and I dont have a particularly high opinion of Pascoe or the board, other than potentially the decision to let him go early, what have the Tigers done wrong? why do the Tigers need to sort out NQ & LL's problems?
I have no issues with releasing him - I think he's been awful for ages and am happy to see the back of him. But going off half cocked and releasing a statement saying he was released and joining the cowboys (when the deal hadn't been done for him to join the Cows) is sloppy. It's just so amateurish.
Ok then, now we are out of the realm "you are entitled to your opinion", you are just wrong (geniunely meant with respect). If you are happy with the Tigers releasing him, then they have not done anything sloppy or amateurish. LL & his manager asked for a release and the Wests Tigers granted it. End of story. Yes in the release the Tigers said he will "join NQ" this season but that is not the Tigers responsibility. We are not going to pack his bags and drive him to the airport. After all parties sign the release, the rest of it is up to LL, his manager and NQ.
I agree there has been sloppy and amateur management but its by LL's manager and the NQ management. Not WT problem. As confuscious said 'If a monkey leaps from a tree, he better have a branch to land on". If LL & NQ screw this, I hope the Tigers make him sit the season out.
Nah I'm not wrong at all. It was handled in a sloppy and amateurish way which is very on brand. No other professional organisation would do this and it's garbage. If that sort of management is up to your standards good for you, it's way below the standards that i'd expect from a professional organisation. Hell I operate my own company to a much higher standard than that.
What.Did.They.Do.Wrong? you keep saying sloppy and amateurish. What should they have done differently. Once the decision is made to let him go, I genuinely dont see a problem.
Call the Uber late? Not pack his undies? He asked for a release, we granted it. The release is not conditional on NQ. If NQ screw up, he could play for someone else. Not the Tigers problem.
We said we were releasing a player to the cowboys which wasn't the case. We also haven't lodged the release with the NRL according to reports this morning. If you struggle to see how that's not professional I really can't help you.
Apparently we released him before NQ agreed and before the release was registered with the NRL. Are we the most incompetent organisation in the world?
Cowboys Head of Football also spoke on SEN this morning. He basically said that the Tigers released him when they haven’t even come to an agreement on who pays what for this year.
Absolute amateurs. Such an unprofessional organisation headed up by Lee & Pascoe
Why is this necessarily the Tigers problem. If LL and his manager approached the Tigers for an immediate release from his Contract and it suits the Tigers and they agree. That is the end of the story. THe rest is up to LL & NQ to sort out.
You make a good point however wouldn’t you think it would still include Wests Tigers to negotiate the terms of the release. He still has a contract registered with the NRL with the Wests Tigers. I would think that unless he has a contract somewhere else that both teams have agree too, he still has a binding contract with Wests Tigers? One for the lawyers maybe.
I obviously havent seen the Contract and Im not a lawyer but based on the fact that the Tigers signed the release, then the terms are obviously agreed on.
He had a Contract with the Wests Tigers to play for them in the NRL. LL and his manager asked the Tigers for a release from that Contract and it was granted. He is no longer Contracted to the Wests Tigers, end of story. He would no longer have a binding Contract with the Tigers. It is up to another club to get him Contracted to play for them. Tigers no longer have an obligation to him.
Apparently we released him before NQ agreed and before the release was registered with the NRL. Are we the most incompetent organisation in the world?
Cowboys Head of Football also spoke on SEN this morning. He basically said that the Tigers released him when they haven’t even come to an agreement on who pays what for this year.
Absolute amateurs. Such an unprofessional organisation headed up by Lee & Pascoe
I've said it a million times before - Pascoe is not up to running a professional sporting team. He's a moron.
Possibly true, but two things can be true at once....
Let me throw a hypothetical at you....
LL is on $ 600,000.00 per year (plucked the figure out of the air). The season is half done. Luki gets injured and Cowboys knock on the door. Cowboys do their maths and figure he will cost approx $300k on the cap this year. Cowboys, LL and agent knock on Tigers door..."Will you release LL form his contract so he can come to us?".
What if......LL's contract is massively backended. What if....when cowboys, LL & agent asked to be released the Tigers simply said "Yep....ok"?
Wouldn't this hypothetical scenario play out pretty much as it is now? Why is this all of a sudden the Tigers problem?
Do you think announcing the release of a player prior to lodging the release with the NRL and prior to agreeing to numbers with the team he's going to is good business? Or do you think it's further evidence that Pascoe is a massive idiot? I'm going with option 2.
Why do the Tigers have to agree to numbers with the team he is going to? He has a Contract with us and he wants an immediate release. If it suits the Tigers, you both sign and then its done. He no longer has a Contract with the Wests Tigers. Everything after that is up to LL & NQ.
Why would any of it be Tigers problem or evidence of poor management?
Edit : To answer your question more directly, if LL's Contract was back ended and LL & his agent asked for an immediate release and signed the release, then that would be genius management by Pascoe et al and poor by LL's agent and NQ. Again, not the Tigers problem.
Yes but you're creating a whole lot of hypotheticals to support your point which are simply hypotheticals you've invented for that purpose. What we know for sure is this:
1. We announce via our website we've released him stating in the release "He will now join the Cowboys for the remainder of this season."
2. NQ football Manager Michael Luck goes on radio this morning and said they had simply "asked the question" whether there was a chance of getting him early. There was nothing in writing and nothing even advanced for that matter.
Have you ever seen this happen before with any other professional club or even amateur club?
I completely disagree with you. Yes I have provided a hypothetical above in which it would have been a great bit of management (saving on a backended deal) but you do not need a hypothetical in this case, the fact and the truth bear it out.
LL had a Contract to play NRL with the Wests Tigers. LL and his manager approached the Tigers and asked for an immediate release from his playing Contract. The Tigers granted him an immediate release from his Contract. Full stop, period, end of story. There is nothing hypothetical in this.
Everything that comes after that has NOTHING to do with the Wests Tigers. If NQ dont have room for him under the cap, thats a sad story for NQ & LL. It is not the Wests Tigers problem and I cant see where or why the Tigers have a liability or an obligation.
That's fine that you disagree, but I think it's another example of incompetence by an administration that have a strong record of unprofessionalism. We literally sent out a statement saying he was released to go and play for the Cowboys which, at the time, was not true. It's just garbage stuff from a bunch of amateurs pretending to be business leaders. Pascoe is a complete moron who has no place running a professional sports team.
Totally fine that we have differing opinions on this, and I dont have a particularly high opinion of Pascoe or the board, other than potentially the decision to let him go early, what have the Tigers done wrong? why do the Tigers need to sort out NQ & LL's problems?
I have no issues with releasing him - I think he's been awful for ages and am happy to see the back of him. But going off half cocked and releasing a statement saying he was released and joining the cowboys (when the deal hadn't been done for him to join the Cows) is sloppy. It's just so amateurish.
Ok then, now we are out of the realm "you are entitled to your opinion", you are just wrong (geniunely meant with respect). If you are happy with the Tigers releasing him, then they have not done anything sloppy or amateurish. LL & his manager asked for a release and the Wests Tigers granted it. End of story. Yes in the release the Tigers said he will "join NQ" this season but that is not the Tigers responsibility. We are not going to pack his bags and drive him to the airport. After all parties sign the release, the rest of it is up to LL, his manager and NQ.
I agree there has been sloppy and amateur management but its by LL's manager and the NQ management. Not WT problem. As confuscious said 'If a monkey leaps from a tree, he better have a branch to land on". If LL & NQ screw this, I hope the Tigers make him sit the season out.
Nah I'm not wrong at all. It was handled in a sloppy and amateurish way which is very on brand. No other professional organisation would do this and it's garbage. If that sort of management is up to your standards good for you, it's way below the standards that i'd expect from a professional organisation. Hell I operate my own company to a much higher standard than that.
What.Did.They.Do.Wrong? you keep saying sloppy and amateurish. What should they have done differently. Once the decision is made to let him go, I genuinely dont see a problem.
Call the Uber late? Not pack his undies? He asked for a release, we granted it. The release is not conditional on NQ. If NQ screw up, he could play for someone else. Not the Tigers problem.
We said we were releasing a player to the cowboys which wasn't the case. We also haven't lodged the release with the NRL according to reports this morning. If you struggle to see how that's not professional I really can't help you.
Does Luciano Leilua have a Contract with the Wests Tigers?
@tiger5150 I'm not sure. Do you know for sure or are you making more assumptions?
@tiger5150 I'm not sure. Do you know for sure or are you making more assumptions?
All indications are that he no longer has a Contract with the Wests Tigers.
https://www.weststigers.com.au/news/2022/06/14/luciano-leilua-granted-early-release/
EDIT: If it turns out that the Tigers have NOT ended his Contract and released this statement, then Im all in with you on this being complete incompetence. To date though there is nothing indicating that. All evidence points to incompetence by NQ and/LL management.
Apparently we released him before NQ agreed and before the release was registered with the NRL. Are we the most incompetent organisation in the world?
Cowboys Head of Football also spoke on SEN this morning. He basically said that the Tigers released him when they haven’t even come to an agreement on who pays what for this year.
Absolute amateurs. Such an unprofessional organisation headed up by Lee & Pascoe
Why is this necessarily the Tigers problem. If LL and his manager approached the Tigers for an immediate release from his Contract and it suits the Tigers and they agree. That is the end of the story. THe rest is up to LL & NQ to sort out.
You make a good point however wouldn’t you think it would still include Wests Tigers to negotiate the terms of the release. He still has a contract registered with the NRL with the Wests Tigers. I would think that unless he has a contract somewhere else that both teams have agree too, he still has a binding contract with Wests Tigers? One for the lawyers maybe.
I obviously havent seen the Contract and Im not a lawyer but based on the fact that the Tigers signed the release, then the terms are obviously agreed on.
He had a Contract with the Wests Tigers to play for them in the NRL. LL and his manager asked the Tigers for a release from that Contract and it was granted. He is no longer Contracted to the Wests Tigers, end of story. He would no longer have a binding Contract with the Tigers. It is up to another club to get him Contracted to play for them. Tigers no longer have an obligation to him.
That’s a pretty big assumption on your part. I wouldn’t assume that at all. By the sounds of it terms were not agreed to at all.
Apparently we released him before NQ agreed and before the release was registered with the NRL. Are we the most incompetent organisation in the world?
Cowboys Head of Football also spoke on SEN this morning. He basically said that the Tigers released him when they haven’t even come to an agreement on who pays what for this year.
Absolute amateurs. Such an unprofessional organisation headed up by Lee & Pascoe
Why is this necessarily the Tigers problem. If LL and his manager approached the Tigers for an immediate release from his Contract and it suits the Tigers and they agree. That is the end of the story. THe rest is up to LL & NQ to sort out.
You make a good point however wouldn’t you think it would still include Wests Tigers to negotiate the terms of the release. He still has a contract registered with the NRL with the Wests Tigers. I would think that unless he has a contract somewhere else that both teams have agree too, he still has a binding contract with Wests Tigers? One for the lawyers maybe.
I obviously havent seen the Contract and Im not a lawyer but based on the fact that the Tigers signed the release, then the terms are obviously agreed on.
He had a Contract with the Wests Tigers to play for them in the NRL. LL and his manager asked the Tigers for a release from that Contract and it was granted. He is no longer Contracted to the Wests Tigers, end of story. He would no longer have a binding Contract with the Tigers. It is up to another club to get him Contracted to play for them. Tigers no longer have an obligation to him.
This sort of thing keeps lawyers in business.
@tiger5150 I'm not sure. Do you know for sure or are you making more assumptions?
All indications are that he no longer has a Contract with the Wests Tigers.
https://www.weststigers.com.au/news/2022/06/14/luciano-leilua-granted-early-release/
That also indicates he's finishing out the season with the Cowboys which isn't confirmed. I wouldn't put much stock in what Pascoe and Co release. They're idiots.
Apparently we released him before NQ agreed and before the release was registered with the NRL. Are we the most incompetent organisation in the world?
Cowboys Head of Football also spoke on SEN this morning. He basically said that the Tigers released him when they haven’t even come to an agreement on who pays what for this year.
Absolute amateurs. Such an unprofessional organisation headed up by Lee & Pascoe
Why is this necessarily the Tigers problem. If LL and his manager approached the Tigers for an immediate release from his Contract and it suits the Tigers and they agree. That is the end of the story. THe rest is up to LL & NQ to sort out.
You make a good point however wouldn’t you think it would still include Wests Tigers to negotiate the terms of the release. He still has a contract registered with the NRL with the Wests Tigers. I would think that unless he has a contract somewhere else that both teams have agree too, he still has a binding contract with Wests Tigers? One for the lawyers maybe.
I obviously havent seen the Contract and Im not a lawyer but based on the fact that the Tigers signed the release, then the terms are obviously agreed on.
He had a Contract with the Wests Tigers to play for them in the NRL. LL and his manager asked the Tigers for a release from that Contract and it was granted. He is no longer Contracted to the Wests Tigers, end of story. He would no longer have a binding Contract with the Tigers. It is up to another club to get him Contracted to play for them. Tigers no longer have an obligation to him.
That’s a pretty big assumption on your part. I wouldn’t assume that at all. By the sounds of it terms were not agreed to at all.
At this stage, there is NO assumption made at all. The Tigers have stated that he has been released from his Contract. If he has been released, then the terms were agreed and met. Again it is not up to the Tigers to drive him to the airport.
As Ive said in my edit above. IF it turns out that the Tigers have released this statement prior to terminating the Contract, then it is complete incompetence and I would support Pascoe being sacked to be honest.
However, on the actual information we have, there is no evidence that we have screwed up. I think it all points to LLs agent and/or NQ screwing up and that is not WT problem.
@tiger5150 I'm not sure. Do you know for sure or are you making more assumptions?
All indications are that he no longer has a Contract with the Wests Tigers.
https://www.weststigers.com.au/news/2022/06/14/luciano-leilua-granted-early-release/
That also indicates he's finishing out the season with the Cowboys which isn't confirmed. I wouldn't put much stock in what Pascoe and Co release. They're idiots.
Him finishing the season with the Cowboys, is not the Tigers responsibility.
@tiger5150 I'm not sure. Do you know for sure or are you making more assumptions?
All indications are that he no longer has a Contract with the Wests Tigers.
https://www.weststigers.com.au/news/2022/06/14/luciano-leilua-granted-early-release/
That also indicates he's finishing out the season with the Cowboys which isn't confirmed. I wouldn't put much stock in what Pascoe and Co release. They're idiots.
Him finishing the season with the Cowboys, is not the Tigers responsibility.
I tend to agree. I’m more than happy to point out management short comings but I don’t see too much of an issue here. If LL was calling time on his career and asked for a release, and that was something both parties were both agreeable to, including financial terms, then our obligations are complete imo.
Wests Tigers Podcast - Talking everything Wests Tigers!
Apparently we released him before NQ agreed and before the release was registered with the NRL. Are we the most incompetent organisation in the world?
Cowboys Head of Football also spoke on SEN this morning. He basically said that the Tigers released him when they haven’t even come to an agreement on who pays what for this year.
Absolute amateurs. Such an unprofessional organisation headed up by Lee & Pascoe
Why is this necessarily the Tigers problem. If LL and his manager approached the Tigers for an immediate release from his Contract and it suits the Tigers and they agree. That is the end of the story. THe rest is up to LL & NQ to sort out.
You make a good point however wouldn’t you think it would still include Wests Tigers to negotiate the terms of the release. He still has a contract registered with the NRL with the Wests Tigers. I would think that unless he has a contract somewhere else that both teams have agree too, he still has a binding contract with Wests Tigers? One for the lawyers maybe.
All it would take is the player and the club signing a document to terminate the contract, it may include anything negotiated to end it but I don't see what it has to do with NQ at all, unless a player swap was involved. If the player is happy with the terms of the termination then we don't need to negotiate with NQ who is paying what.
In memory of Geoff Chisholm (1965-2022)
What was it Cowboys pressure Tigers for LL immediate release ..Tiger walks out on club !!!all in the media and for all to read .. Tigers immediately release LL. What’s the problem that’s his managers and the Cowboys issues now as long as the process was done correctly who cares !!!
if LL asks for a release and WT grant that release that is the end of it. WT are under no obligation to make sure LL is getting signed or paid by cowboys that is between hi manager and cowboys
Luch asked for a release which was granted. That in itself terminates the contract with immediate effect. What happens thereafter is not for Wests Tigers. The cows made a mistake or misread the situation imo and are now backtracking.
