It’s a panicked Hail Mary. Not exactly the panicked response I expected but just as incompetent a response as I expected, and they still panicked. Terrible governance and decision making. This has disaster written all over it.
Sheens has not been successful since he left, over 10 years now, and that has been in a second tier competition. Also remember he sued the club as well after they sacked him. Benji and Farah are deadset rookies when it comes to coaching. I doubt Benji will be able to overcome his self interest, it’s all about Benji, to be a decent coach. It’s about people management and I just don’t see it. If it wasn’t so depressing I’d be laughing.
You can characterise it as a Hail Mary. In truth as a club we were stuck in a stable equilibrium where we were a bottom 4 club. Increasing the potential range of outcomes via adopting a riskier strategy actually makes some sort sense
It’s pure desperation from a club that has been rejected by everyone approached. They stuffed this up the moment they sacked Maguire without a replacement already signed. Total incompetence from an unprofessional organisation.
I don’t know the ins and outs. I know they were all in on ciraldo and thought he was coming hence the sacking of Madge. I don’t know once they missed out on ciraldo that they were “rejected by everyone”, in fact I highly doubt it as there are only 16 first grade coaching jobs and plenty who think they can do the job. My hunch is that once they missed ciraldo they went back to the drawing board and didn’t rush into talking to the next candidates (green, Flanagan etc). In the end they came up with this mix and I’m ok with it. Pretty much everything the tigers chose would have been a Hail Mary. Getting in another coach who has failed somewhere else just locks in more of the same I would suspect.
You mean like Sheens who has failed at every endeavour since 2012?
You supported Madge and he has been going backwards since 2014.
Madge oversaw the rebalancing of our salary cap and a refocus on juniors.
We may of went backwards on the ladder but I think under madge we saw the club turn itself around and begin to move in the right direction.
And we are now in a position for the right coaching team to take advantage of our great position with an open salary cap, competitive spine options and great juniors coming though.
I think Sheens, Benji and Robbie are the right coaching option to take the next step.
But I respect what madge did for the club
I respect what Sheens, Robbie and Benji are about to do for the club
I don't respect Cilardo - who didn't have courage to back himself
And I don't respect Cleary who wrecked our club for the interest of himself and not the clubs
Top 8 2023
Tim Sheens interview
https://www.2gb.com/podcast/tim-sheens-confident-of-future-success-for-wests-tigers/
Wests Tigers Podcast - Talking everything Wests Tigers!
Wayne Bennett has ridiculed suggestions Benji Marshall hasn’t got the coaching experience required to successfully transition into the job amid revelations Wests Tigers tried to lure another premiership hero back to the club.
A decade after sacking him, the Tigers have announced they will reinstall Sheens as coachfor 2023-24, with Marshall and Robbie Farah as his assistants. Sheens will then step down to allow Marshall to take over on a three-year deal. The reunion of key members of the 2005 premiership success could have been larger still had Cowboys coach Todd Payten accepted an invitation to return to Concord.
Coach-of-the-year contender Payten is contracted until the end of 2023, but Sheens discreetly enquired about his availability.
“I asked Toddy how he was going up there,” Sheens told the Sun-Herald. “He said ‘fine’. I asked, ‘How is the wife going up there?’ And he said, ‘Fine’. We smiled and that was it.
“I didn’t have to ask Todd. Toddy knew what I was asking. He’s a very intelligent guy and we go back to when he was 17 at the Raiders.
“That wasn’t long ago. You ask me about what I was doing, well we certainly hadn’t given up on the idea of someone taking the club and running with it.”
Instead, Marshall has been anointed as the man for the role after completing his apprenticeship under Sheens. The Kiwi international only retired last from the playing ranks last year, but his long-time mentor Wayne Bennett was adamant it wasn’t too much, too soon.
“Oh, he’s experienced, believe me,” Bennett said. “He’s been coaching for a lot longer than you think he has been.
“He just didn’t have ‘coach’ beside his name, he just had ‘player’. He will succeed. He’s very good with his leadership and management around players.
“There’s no bullshit with him. He knows the game extremely well, he knows the people in the game. He might not know someone until he comes to the club, but he will know that personality very well.
“I won’t be out there in a wheelchair or walking stick ... Right now the club could do with a bit of experience.”
Tim Sheens
“There’s a lot of fun in him, he doesn’t like doing sad.”
The Tigers’ succession plan has been ridiculed in some quarters, but it’s the same one Bennett employed at South Sydney and will again be used by the seven-time premiership-winner at Redcliffe.
“The problem with most clubs is they don’t have a plan,” Bennett said. “It’s reaction, reaction, reaction and we all know how that goes. The Tigers are in a pretty bad state, they’ve had a lot of coaches over a short period of time. It’s not ideal, it’s not what people want to see, and you have coaches knocking the job back that have never coached in the NRL, so that’s not a good sign either.
“Tim has been a great coach in his time and he’s still got passion for the game. You can put young guys like Benji around him. I think it’s a great decision they made, it will stabilise the club.
“Tim will be able to handle all the criticism. I’m going the same path at Redcliffe; I’ll be the punching bag when things are going bad. That’s fine. Tim and I are used to that, you can’t hurt us. You protect the young coach and get the club stable and on the right road and then your young coach can come in and have a pretty good run at it.”
Sheens only agreed to step back into head coaching the Tigers once Marshall and Farah fully committed to being his assistants. The 71-year-old rolled his eyes when asked if he was too old for the job.
“The energy of Benj and Robbie, they’re full of effervescence, and it’s not as if I’m out there playing,” Sheens said.
“The ageism thing annoys me. I’ve been involved in this business 50 years, I know what’s required. People can say what they like. They’ve said it about Wayne, too. Us two old farts ... there’s a finiteness about it. I won’t be out there in a wheelchair or walking stick doing it, but right now the club could do with a bit of experience.”
Brett Kimmorley is the interim coach and will remain in the role, including Sunday’s clash against Penrith, which will feature the inaugural Royce Simmons Trophy. The Tigers want Kimmorley to remain at the club.
Simmons, who is battling dementia, joined Sheens on Saturday, and loved the fact his old mate was back at the helm.
“Tim is the best coach I played under, the best coach I worked with, and his love of the game is still unbelievable - I’ve never seen a guy who lives for footy like he does. I think he’s the ideal person to put in right now,” Simmons said.
Wests Tigers Podcast - Talking everything Wests Tigers!
It’s a panicked Hail Mary. Not exactly the panicked response I expected but just as incompetent a response as I expected, and they still panicked. Terrible governance and decision making. This has disaster written all over it.
Sheens has not been successful since he left, over 10 years now, and that has been in a second tier competition. Also remember he sued the club as well after they sacked him. Benji and Farah are deadset rookies when it comes to coaching. I doubt Benji will be able to overcome his self interest, it’s all about Benji, to be a decent coach. It’s about people management and I just don’t see it. If it wasn’t so depressing I’d be laughing.
You can characterise it as a Hail Mary. In truth as a club we were stuck in a stable equilibrium where we were a bottom 4 club. Increasing the potential range of outcomes via adopting a riskier strategy actually makes some sort sense
It’s pure desperation from a club that has been rejected by everyone approached. They stuffed this up the moment they sacked Maguire without a replacement already signed. Total incompetence from an unprofessional organisation.
I don’t know the ins and outs. I know they were all in on ciraldo and thought he was coming hence the sacking of Madge. I don’t know once they missed out on ciraldo that they were “rejected by everyone”, in fact I highly doubt it as there are only 16 first grade coaching jobs and plenty who think they can do the job. My hunch is that once they missed ciraldo they went back to the drawing board and didn’t rush into talking to the next candidates (green, Flanagan etc). In the end they came up with this mix and I’m ok with it. Pretty much everything the tigers chose would have been a Hail Mary. Getting in another coach who has failed somewhere else just locks in more of the same I would suspect.
You mean like Sheens who has failed at every endeavour since 2012?
You supported Madge and he has been going backwards since 2014.
Madge oversaw the rebalancing of our salary cap and a refocus on juniors.
We may of went backwards on the ladder but I think under madge we saw the club turn itself around and begin to move in the right direction.
And we are now in a position for the right coaching team to take advantage of our great position with an open salary cap, competitive spine options and great juniors coming though.
I think Sheens, Benji and Robbie are the right coaching option to take the next step.
But I respect what madge did for the club
I respect what Sheens, Robbie and Benji are about to do for the club
I don't respect Cilardo - who didn't have courage to back himself
And I don't respect Cleary who wrecked our club for the interest of himself and not the clubs
Agree 100% with all points.
In memory of Geoff Chisholm (1965-2022)
Let’s be honest, maybe Madge can coach a Madge squad to the finals but less than 10% of NRL players are in that mould. And he showed little to no ability to coach to the squad he had
This is not about sacking Madge. It’s about not having someone secured when they did and then not being able to attract anyone else. So they hire a person who has repeatedly failed in the last 10 years + 2 coaching rookies.
This is about the incompetence of an unprofessional organisation. Nothing will change until the governance and front office changes. They will continue to make panicked poor decisions because they don’t know any better.
I agree Mike, I just hope this decision ends up being a positive for the club.
So do I but it has failure written all over it. Let’s hope I am wrong.
WESTS TIGERS 2013 NRL SQUAD
Blake Ayshford, Braith Anasta, Matthew Bell, Adam Blair, Jack Buchanan, Robbie Farah, Mosese Fotuiaka, Liam Fulton, Keith Galloway, Matthew Groat, Masada Iosefa, Marika Koroibete, Chris Lawrence, Benji Marshall, Jacob Miller, Ben Murdoch-Masila, Sean Meaney, Tim Moltzen, Taqele Naiyaravaro, David Nufoaluma, Eddy Pettybourne, Joel Reddy, Ava Seumanufagai, Tim Simona, Curtis Sironen, Shaun Spence, Jesse Sue, James Tedesco, Bodene Thompson, Lote Tuqiri, Matt Utai, Aaron Woods.
The following NYC players will train with the Wests Tigers NRL squad till Christmas: Kurtis Rowe, Mitchell Moses, Luke Brooks, Brendan Santi, Andrew Vela, Kyle Lovett, Nathan Brown, Manaia Cherrington.
this is the squad that Sheens left the club with when he was fired. Perhaps the mistake was firing him when he had coached the club the finals in 2011. Add JAC and papenhouzen.
so instead we sacked sheens and then ran through potter, Taylor, Cleary and Madge and end up with the spoon.
maybe we are just correcting the mistake we made 10yrs ago.
It’s a panicked Hail Mary. Not exactly the panicked response I expected but just as incompetent a response as I expected, and they still panicked. Terrible governance and decision making. This has disaster written all over it.
Sheens has not been successful since he left, over 10 years now, and that has been in a second tier competition. Also remember he sued the club as well after they sacked him. Benji and Farah are deadset rookies when it comes to coaching. I doubt Benji will be able to overcome his self interest, it’s all about Benji, to be a decent coach. It’s about people management and I just don’t see it. If it wasn’t so depressing I’d be laughing.
You can characterise it as a Hail Mary. In truth as a club we were stuck in a stable equilibrium where we were a bottom 4 club. Increasing the potential range of outcomes via adopting a riskier strategy actually makes some sort sense
It’s pure desperation from a club that has been rejected by everyone approached. They stuffed this up the moment they sacked Maguire without a replacement already signed. Total incompetence from an unprofessional organisation.
Agree with all of that. But sometimes the best gifts come poorly wrapped.
The chances of a quick turnaround in 2023 rest on our ability to find 2-3 leaders from outside the club to help guide the young players.
This coaching combination gives Tigers fans every hope that high quality, experienced players will want to join the club.
Anyone throwing stones at Sheens and Benji should at least reserve judgment until 2023 roster is finalised.
Poll results: Sheens/Farah/Benji - was it a correct decision?
It's a decision, I'm too worn down to get bogged down in the process,
A direction has been plotted. 3 men whose motivation to see this club thrive can't be questioned.
Agree with @frullens summary of Madges roll, it's a shame it didn't work out as he poured his heart into this club but that's elite sport,
@frullens thoughts on the duo at Penrith spot on as well, regardless of how different the current results of the clubs are.
I didn’t agree with the decision to sack Sheens in 2012. I surmise it had to do with popular players being moved on which was unpopular with the playing group. The powerbrokers sided with the players and Sheens was turfed. That old saying comes to mind “don’t let the lunatics run the asylum”. The club appointed Potter and finished 15th in 2013 and deteriorated further. I felt after 2010-11 Sheens was trying to fast track the reshaping the roster for the next generation of young players in our system. He had the foresight to see what was needed when others couldn’t and the powerbrokers should of backed him, they didn’t. Who knows if Sheens had been allowed to see out his tenure we might of had Payten as head coach by now, and a vastly different roster sprinkled with stars. Instead we broke the thread and are now trying to mend it.
I didn’t agree with the decision to sack Sheens in 2012. I surmise it had to do with popular players being moved on which was unpopular with the playing group. The powerbrokers sided with the players and Sheens was turfed. That old saying comes to mind “don’t let the lunatics run the asylum”. The club appointed Potter and finished 15th in 2013 and deteriorated further. I felt after 2010-11 Sheens was trying to fast track the reshaping the roster for the next generation of young players in our system. He had the foresight to see what was needed when others couldn’t and the powerbrokers should of backed him, they didn’t. Who knows if Sheens had been allowed to see out his tenure we might of had Payten as head coach by now, and a vastly different roster sprinkled with stars. Instead we broke the thread and are now trying to mend it.
Welcome Salty! Sacking Sheens was a huge moment for this club and if things had played out differently we probably wouldn’t have lost Marshall, Tedesco and had a much better decade.
Wests Tigers Podcast - Talking everything Wests Tigers!
Wayne Bennett has ridiculed suggestions Benji Marshall hasn’t got the coaching experience required to successfully transition into the job amid revelations Wests Tigers tried to lure another premiership hero back to the club.
A decade after sacking him, the Tigers have announced they will reinstall Sheens as coachfor 2023-24, with Marshall and Robbie Farah as his assistants. Sheens will then step down to allow Marshall to take over on a three-year deal. The reunion of key members of the 2005 premiership success could have been larger still had Cowboys coach Todd Payten accepted an invitation to return to Concord.
Coach-of-the-year contender Payten is contracted until the end of 2023, but Sheens discreetly enquired about his availability.
“I asked Toddy how he was going up there,” Sheens told the Sun-Herald. “He said ‘fine’. I asked, ‘How is the wife going up there?’ And he said, ‘Fine’. We smiled and that was it.
“I didn’t have to ask Todd. Toddy knew what I was asking. He’s a very intelligent guy and we go back to when he was 17 at the Raiders.
“That wasn’t long ago. You ask me about what I was doing, well we certainly hadn’t given up on the idea of someone taking the club and running with it.”
Instead, Marshall has been anointed as the man for the role after completing his apprenticeship under Sheens. The Kiwi international only retired last from the playing ranks last year, but his long-time mentor Wayne Bennett was adamant it wasn’t too much, too soon.
“Oh, he’s experienced, believe me,” Bennett said. “He’s been coaching for a lot longer than you think he has been.
“He just didn’t have ‘coach’ beside his name, he just had ‘player’. He will succeed. He’s very good with his leadership and management around players.
“There’s no bullshit with him. He knows the game extremely well, he knows the people in the game. He might not know someone until he comes to the club, but he will know that personality very well.
“I won’t be out there in a wheelchair or walking stick ... Right now the club could do with a bit of experience.”
Tim Sheens
“There’s a lot of fun in him, he doesn’t like doing sad.”
The Tigers’ succession plan has been ridiculed in some quarters, but it’s the same one Bennett employed at South Sydney and will again be used by the seven-time premiership-winner at Redcliffe.
“The problem with most clubs is they don’t have a plan,” Bennett said. “It’s reaction, reaction, reaction and we all know how that goes. The Tigers are in a pretty bad state, they’ve had a lot of coaches over a short period of time. It’s not ideal, it’s not what people want to see, and you have coaches knocking the job back that have never coached in the NRL, so that’s not a good sign either.
“Tim has been a great coach in his time and he’s still got passion for the game. You can put young guys like Benji around him. I think it’s a great decision they made, it will stabilise the club.
“Tim will be able to handle all the criticism. I’m going the same path at Redcliffe; I’ll be the punching bag when things are going bad. That’s fine. Tim and I are used to that, you can’t hurt us. You protect the young coach and get the club stable and on the right road and then your young coach can come in and have a pretty good run at it.”
Sheens only agreed to step back into head coaching the Tigers once Marshall and Farah fully committed to being his assistants. The 71-year-old rolled his eyes when asked if he was too old for the job.
“The energy of Benj and Robbie, they’re full of effervescence, and it’s not as if I’m out there playing,” Sheens said.
“The ageism thing annoys me. I’ve been involved in this business 50 years, I know what’s required. People can say what they like. They’ve said it about Wayne, too. Us two old farts ... there’s a finiteness about it. I won’t be out there in a wheelchair or walking stick doing it, but right now the club could do with a bit of experience.”
Brett Kimmorley is the interim coach and will remain in the role, including Sunday’s clash against Penrith, which will feature the inaugural Royce Simmons Trophy. The Tigers want Kimmorley to remain at the club.
Simmons, who is battling dementia, joined Sheens on Saturday, and loved the fact his old mate was back at the helm.
“Tim is the best coach I played under, the best coach I worked with, and his love of the game is still unbelievable - I’ve never seen a guy who lives for footy like he does. I think he’s the ideal person to put in right now,” Simmons said.
Great summary by Bennett. The bloke obviously knows what he is talking about and its good to hear his POV.
Bennett has a soft spot for the Tigers.Twice Ive seen him standing in front of the Latchem Robinson stand at LO watching the Tigers play when he is not coaching.
The chances of a quick turnaround in 2023 rest on our ability to find 2-3 leaders from outside the club to help guide the young players.
Anyone throwing stones at Sheens and Benji should at least reserve judgment until 2023 roster is finalised.
Everything above could be said for Madge.
Sacking the coach is essentially endorsing the playing group - other wise you'd sack them.
- @mike I wouldn’t call it a panic . It screams Hail Mary though. It’s a swing for the fences . It either goes over the wall or your walking back to the dugout with your tail between your legs . Nothing in between .
and it had to happen or something like it .
none of the options outside Ciraldo felt at all reasurring . All felt like we were condemning ourself to rugby league purgatory ,9th-10th place for the next 5 years .
this decision will either move us to the top or root us at the bottom .
That may seem bad , but it’s not.
the worst spot you can be in sports isn’t last .
It’s meh !
as in “yea they’re ok ! “ . Which is where we have been since we shat the bed when we were favourites for the comp .
when your at the bottom , you take risks because you don’t have anything to lose . When your at the top , we’ll your winning so you know what success is .
when your in the middle , your terrified of being horrendous but you haven’t got the foggiest how to be good , unless you’re a roosters or storm and your just having a down year .
so you take less risks . And slowly you drop anyway ..
Incoming Wests Tigers head coach Tim Sheens says Benji Marshall's combination of football smarts and personality will make him successful when he inherits the job.
Marshall is set to take the reins of the struggling club from 2025, with the appointment labelled one of the biggest coaching gambles in NRL history.
But Sheens, who coached Marshall and the Tigers to the NRL premiership in 2005, has little doubt the 37-year-old will handle the giant task with aplomb.
A number of players who have gone on to become successful coaches such as Mal Meninga, Laurie Daley and Craig Bellamy all played under Sheens before transitioning into the coaching box, and Sheens revealed the similar traits Marshall possessed to those iconic mentors.
"(Marshall has) football smarts, which is something you need," he told Nine's 100% Footy.
"I saw that in Billy (Slater) when I worked with him in the Australian side, how smart he was.
"He also (has) the right personality. Benji is one of those guys who will give himself to his players (and) I think that's important these days with the current crop (of players).
"He's modern enough ... the boys know him, the boys love him, I think he'll handle it quite easily."
Sheens used the example of Slater's Origin triumph with Queensland as evidence of why previous coaching experience wasn't the be-all and end-all.
"Everything points to him doing well," he said.
"For instance, Billy Slater, he hadn't coached before but he's now recognised after that series as being a very good coach.
"I know club footy is a bit different, but coaching is coaching. Plenty of coaches have done it early and you don't have to be eight-year assistant coaches.
"I really don't give a damn about what some people say, everyone's got an opinion.
"There's plenty of people who will get stuck into me in the next 18 months, it's not going to be easy ... the only thing that's going to shut people down is winning."
Wests Tigers Podcast - Talking everything Wests Tigers!
The chances of a quick turnaround in 2023 rest on our ability to find 2-3 leaders from outside the club to help guide the young players.
Anyone throwing stones at Sheens and Benji should at least reserve judgment until 2023 roster is finalised.
Everything above could be said for Madge.
Sacking the coach is essentially endorsing the playing group - other wise you'd sack them.
In principal I agree but in practice how likely was it that Madge was going to be able to pull in more high profile players?
Api and IP are great signings and are a positive endorsement for Madge. I cant ignore that. But on the flip side look at his other signings? Absolute garbage for the most part.
The club screwed Madge by signing him up for the WT documentary. He was made to look awful in that with the swearing and carrying on dished up every week.
