Honestly reading this thread and others on other sites I just do not fathom how no one can see that Maguire is not the issue. Name one player that has improved with there game under him some that that showed promise are just now languishing in reserve graZZZ xsde ..3 years past of declining failure … this season still no wins … different assistant coaches this season same failures .
Wake up all this is all about Maguire he has failed and needs to be shown the door immediately !!!
Madges fault and clearys fault and Taylor's fault and potters fault and Sheens fault.
Let's sack another coach that will fix all our issues.
Problem solved - now the same board and administration can continue along there merry way......
Top 8 2023
@frullens Have to stop deflecting blame .. Maguire has bought or Re signed if not all present players .. Maguire has been at the club for over three seasons the blame rests on his shoulders no one else’s .. he OWNS what’s happening !
There is no confusion around Madge, he’s here and staying. The confusion is with the people that think otherwise.
I get that Mike but doesn’t the lack of attacking and defending structures make you question the coaching or do you put that all in the players?
Neither you nor I know how they are being coached, we are not there. All we see is the end results. We have a premiership winning coach developed in the Storm system. I trust the coach more than I do the players.
How long should we keep giving him the benefit of doubt because of that premiership? He wouldn't be the 1st coach the game left behind.
We complain that we are not more Storm like. Here we have a coach that is trying to change the culture of the club. Make the players more professional and put in the effort and change the players attitude that they just can’t come here for easy money ie be more Storm like… and we still aren’t happy. This sort of culture change takes time and it will take as long as it takes.
Bellamy innovates, even to the point people don't like it. What is one original thing that Madge has brought to the game? Comparing Madge to Bellamy is laughable.
Looking at the players Bellamy has makes me laugh in comparison.
Because he developed them or they want to play for him. You didn't answer the question though, name just one original thing that Madge has brought to the game. You are comparing one of the best coaches in the game to Madge, you need to give evidence to sustain that.
Better still you name another coach that innovates… maybe 1 or 2 others at most, the rest just follow.
I wasn’t comparing coaches I was comparing systems and culture. We are trying to be more Storm like and Maguire is a big part of this. He was developed under Bellamy and knows the Storm system well and is trying to implement the same/similar processes. Sacking the coach will not fix our issues. It will set us back further.
There is no confusion around Madge, he’s here and staying. The confusion is with the people that think otherwise.
I get that Mike but doesn’t the lack of attacking and defending structures make you question the coaching or do you put that all in the players?
Neither you nor I know how they are being coached, we are not there. All we see is the end results. We have a premiership winning coach developed in the Storm system. I trust the coach more than I do the players.
How long should we keep giving him the benefit of doubt because of that premiership? He wouldn't be the 1st coach the game left behind.
We complain that we are not more Storm like. Here we have a coach that is trying to change the culture of the club. Make the players more professional and put in the effort and change the players attitude that they just can’t come here for easy money ie be more Storm like… and we still aren’t happy. This sort of culture change takes time and it will take as long as it takes.
Bellamy innovates, even to the point people don't like it. What is one original thing that Madge has brought to the game? Comparing Madge to Bellamy is laughable.
The comparison was about culture and culture change.
Not about coaching ability or then as tacticians. If you're looking for coaches who innovate there's maybe 2 or 3 in the comp and the rest copy.
On the issue of culture. Would you prefer to keep long standing culture of player power, happy to take a party cheque ave giving up when the going gets tough?
Or would you prefer we had a stronger culture where we stay in the fight and work out backsides off.
I think that's where we are heading and that's the only way we'll get long term success
I would like a coach that can get the best out of his players.
In memory of Geoff Chisholm (1965-2022)
There is no confusion around Madge, he’s here and staying. The confusion is with the people that think otherwise.
I get that Mike but doesn’t the lack of attacking and defending structures make you question the coaching or do you put that all in the players?
Neither you nor I know how they are being coached, we are not there. All we see is the end results. We have a premiership winning coach developed in the Storm system. I trust the coach more than I do the players.
How long should we keep giving him the benefit of doubt because of that premiership? He wouldn't be the 1st coach the game left behind.
We complain that we are not more Storm like. Here we have a coach that is trying to change the culture of the club. Make the players more professional and put in the effort and change the players attitude that they just can’t come here for easy money ie be more Storm like… and we still aren’t happy. This sort of culture change takes time and it will take as long as it takes.
Bellamy innovates, even to the point people don't like it. What is one original thing that Madge has brought to the game? Comparing Madge to Bellamy is laughable.
Looking at the players Bellamy has makes me laugh in comparison.
Because he developed them or they want to play for him. You didn't answer the question though, name just one original thing that Madge has brought to the game. You are comparing one of the best coaches in the game to Madge, you need to give evidence to sustain that.
Better still you name another coach that innovates… maybe 1 or 2 others at most, the rest just follow.
I wasn’t comparing coaches I was comparing systems and culture. We are trying to be more Storm like and Maguire is a big part of this. He was developed under Bellamy and knows the Storm system well and is trying to implement the same/similar processes. Sacking the coach will not fix our issues. It will set us back further.
So we have the wish.com version of Bellamy, he is able to have his hard-line edge and drive the Melbourne culture because players want to play for him. Players will put up with a lot to play under Bellamy.
In memory of Geoff Chisholm (1965-2022)
@frullens Have to stop deflecting blame .. Maguire has bought or Re signed if not all present players .. Maguire has been at the club for over three seasons the blame rests on his shoulders no one else’s .. he OWNS what’s happening !
I believe that observation is rather mono dimensional Snake.Whatever you say about Madge,it’s undeniable that he inherited from Ivan Cleary one of the most vandalised salary caps on record,with four broken down crocks on Marquis money who never reflected any such heights.Try digging yourself out of that quagmire overnight!
There are tactical things that Madge does that leave me scratching my head but in fairness to him I believe the damage done to our roster and the ludicrous dollars wasted was always going to be a three or four year fix to regain even a semblance of balance.To say that Madge takes sole responsibility for what has happened,and given a hefty injury toll I think it pretty blinkered to single him out and go on a crusade.
We have quality players to come back capable of reversing our fortunes,Madge or no Madge.
So we have the wish.com version of Bellamy, he is able to have his hard-line edge and drive the Melbourne culture because players want to play for him. Players will put up with a lot to play under Bellamy.
We have a coach who is 1000% committed to turning this club around. And we have a playing group that looks like to me they are committed to madge and showing commitment to each other - even if they dont have the talent of other teams.
I don't agree with your description of Madge - but if that what you think he is, name one coach that you think we can realistically sign that's going to not be a wish.com version of Bellamy.
When you find a coach that's better than madge and will be as equally committed to the club, and you see the players not being in - then let's talk about sacking madge.
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Plenty of great debate here guys and good points coming from both sides.
I was on the back Madge side up until the second half of last season when two things became clear:
1. We just aren’t able to attract the external players we want often enough with Maguire as coach.
2. The team has not improved in the past two years, in fact, we’re worse in some ways.
It is not an assessment on Maguire as a person, but I just can’t see how he turns this around.
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I would like a coach that can get the best out of his players.
I want a coach that will put the processes in place so that they play at their best regardless who is at the helm.
Plenty of great debate here guys and good points coming from both sides.
I was on the back Madge side up until the second half of last season when two things became clear:
1. We just aren’t able to attract the external players we want often enough with Maguire as coach.
2. The team has not improved in the past two years, in fact, we’re worse in some ways.
It is not an assessment on Maguire as a person, but I just can’t see how he turns this around.
A win this arvo wouldn’t be a bad start,Helmesy..lol!
So we have the wish.com version of Bellamy, he is able to have his hard-line edge and drive the Melbourne culture because players want to play for him. Players will put up with a lot to play under Bellamy.
We have a coach who is 1000% committed to turning this club around. And we have a playing group that looks like to me they are committed to madge and showing commitment to each other - even if they dont have the talent of other teams.
I don't agree with your description of Madge - but if that what you think he is, name one coach that you think we can realistically sign that's going to not be a wish.com version of Bellamy.
When you find a coach that's better than madge and will be as equally committed to the club, and you see the players not being in - then let's talk about sacking madge.
No doubt he is committed, no doubt that he wants the best for the club, I just don't believe that he is what is best for the club. We are going backwards, yes the players are a big part of the problem, but 2 things can be wrong at once and Madge is part of the problem.
I was very supportive of madge and only wanted change if it had a high chance of success, I didn't want hope I wanted certainty of improvement. I'm passed that now and will take hope because I have none with madge in charge.
If he turned up at press conferences and did away with the quasi business speak and sounded like he knew what he was talking about or had a plan for the way out then I'd still be on board, but he doesn't.
In memory of Geoff Chisholm (1965-2022)
I'm no expert on coaching and no where close enough to make judgement.
But I do love madges passion, commitment to the club and the resilience he shows and think he embodies all the things I want the club to be about.
I wish we were winning - but the position we've got ourselves in over 10 plus years isnt as simple to fix as sacking or picking coaches.
My main indicator to keep madge is what those in the club say.
Robbie says he's madges no 1 fan and we need to stick with him and be patient.
Hastings says he came because of madge, backs him to the hilt
AD loves madge
Peachy this week says madge is the best coach he's had and loves him
If we played the exact same this season but the referee reviewed those 2 tries or maddern/Laurie hold onto the ball and we win against GC and NZ to be 2 and 2 - would you still be saying to sack madge. For where we are at, we shouldn't be focused on those moments but in the bigger structural, cultural changes we are making as a club.
Maybe madge will never get to see the benefits of the hard work he's putting in to turn the club around. But I hope he's acknowledged.
Top 8 2023
sounded like he knew what he was talking about or had a plan for the way out then I'd still be on board, but he doesn't.
@garry how do you know madge has no plan and doesn't know what he's talking about?
Enjoy the debate - but unless you're within the team and club sanctum - I'm not sure how you can be so sure of your opinion in madges knowledge of the game or his plans for the club.
If mqsge is so badly incompetent as you say then - Sheens should sack him straight away. And if he's so incompetent, Pascoe, Sheens and the board should also be sacked for not sacking a so obviously incompetent coach last year.
So should the NZ board who just resigned madge as NZ coach.
Sack Farah too as he obviously doesn't know what he's talking about either.
I know we are winning- but to say madge doesn't know what he's talking about and has no plan - I think is a bit unfair.
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I don’t think, with all due respect, that’s it’s about winning or losing at this point - it’s how poorly the team has played over the past 12 months that’s turned people off Maguire.
Eventually the results of your work have to bare fruit and I’m not seeing that at the moment.
Aside from half a game against Storm we’ve been a pretty lousy team this year (again).
Wests Tigers Podcast - Talking everything Wests Tigers!
sounded like he knew what he was talking about or had a plan for the way out then I'd still be on board, but he doesn't.
@garry how do you know madge has no plan and doesn't know what he's talking about?
Enjoy the debate - but unless you're within the team and club sanctum - I'm not sure how you can be so sure of your opinion in madges knowledge of the game or his plans for the club.
If mqsge is so badly incompetent as you say then - Sheens should sack him straight away. And if he's so incompetent, Pascoe, Sheens and the board should also be sacked for not sacking a so obviously incompetent coach last year.
So should the NZ board who just resigned madge as NZ coach.
Sack Farah too as he obviously doesn't know what he's talking about either.
I know we are winning- but to say madge doesn't know what he's talking about and has no plan - I think is a bit unfair.
The team is going backwards, the attacking structures have been terrible for a number of years, so has our defence. The defence has shown signs of improvement but is yet to be tested and I have stopped listening to his press conferences because I learn nothing about what we are trying to do. We fail to play to our strengths or target opposition weaknesses. Our team has historically shown up prepared to play infrequently and I am not impressed by the development of our players. Our team is playing a similar style of football to what Souths used in 2014, though I have seen some improvement in that this season.
I will ease up on madge a bit fir the next month given we at least seem to be trying atm, but the next month is crucial in regards to Madge's and a number of player's future at the club.
In memory of Geoff Chisholm (1965-2022)
