I don’t believe mentorship’s work at all.
Someone needs to have ultimate accountability and needs to be empowered to make the decisions
if we want Morris as a coach then give him the job without Sheens lurking in the background second guessing his decisions with none of the accountability.
Every leader needs good Mentorship, especially young ones. The question is whether Sheens and Morris have the relationship to make it work, but a young coach should definitely have someone mentoring them.
I think just by nature of the set-up, anyone that comes is going to have some level of input from Sheens.
That is always going to happen if you have a Director of Football, that is part of the idea for the position.
Yeah that’s great as long as the coach, Morris in this case has ultimate power to make decisions even if Sheens doesn’t necessarily agree with them. As a DOF he can provide input as I’m sure he is doing with Kimmorley but he must allow the coach freedom to make decisions he will ultimately be held accountable for.
Otherwise Morris is just an assistant coach and if that’s what he is then we need to be clear that accountability sits with Sheens.
I also doubt Morris would be interested in being an assistant coach, he’s looking for a head coach role.
Who said it would be anything different?
I believe that the idea being floated around social media is that Sheens would take a more hands on role in support of the new coach or that the role would be a kind of joint coach.
This is what I believe wouldn’t work, Sheens was pretty clear at Wests Ashfield on Sun that the coach needs to make the key decisions and he stays out of it. That’s the way it has to be IMO.
@celtic_tiger Yeah I agree mate, Sheens wouldn't even give an opinion on what the spine should be so I doubt he is looking to be that hands on. I think there is still a desire from Sheens to coach but I think he probably realises it is maybe too late in his career for that.
In memory of Geoff Chisholm (1965-2022)
That is always going to happen if you have a Director of Football
But wasn't Sheens hired predominantly to look after pathways and be 'hands off' as far as the top team?
As far as Sheens goes, I'm not at all impressed with what he's done. If he's had his hand in recent recruitment - which is what's been suggested going back to last year - he's done some very poor things (Peachy anyone?).
Then he sacked a coach with no apparent upside.
He had no replacement in place, turning finding a new coach into a race of desperation competing against several other clubs.
He's put Noddy in charge. When Madge was here he made a point of saying he had faith in the players. In Kimmorley's first press conference he says it's going to be a long, hard rebuild - undermining any remaining confidence the players may have had. He's basically told them they're not up to it.
He let Lucy and Mikaele go when we're in forward purgatory.
I know you would vomit at the thought but I'm starting to warm to Flanagan as coach and Morris as assistant. Flanagan did the wrong thing but everyone's entitled to redemption. He served a penalty and any entry back would be heavily scrutinised. He clearly has a good football brain and from all accounts was loved by his players. I also think he would have the courage to stand up to Sheens. I wouldn't even mind if he brought Gallen in to harden up the forwards. I'm not a big fan of his but as a footballer he could teach our guys a thing or two about resilience.
That is always going to happen if you have a Director of Football
But wasn't Sheens hired predominantly to look after pathways and be 'hands off' as far as the top team?
As far as Sheens goes, I'm not at all impressed with what he's done. If he's had his hand in recent recruitment - which is what's been suggested going back to last year - he's done some very poor things (Peachy anyone?).
Then he sacked a coach with no apparent upside.
He had no replacement in place, turning finding a new coach into a race of desperation competing against several other clubs.
He's put Noddy in charge. When Madge was here he made a point of saying he had faith in the players. In Kimmorley's first press conference he says it's going to be a long, hard rebuild - undermining any remaining confidence the players may have had. He's basically told them they're not up to it.
He let Lucy and Mikaele go when we're in forward purgatory.
I know you would vomit at the thought but I'm starting to warm to Flanagan as coach and Morris as assistant. Flanagan did the wrong thing but everyone's entitled to redemption. He served a penalty and any entry back would be heavily scrutinised. He clearly has a good football brain and from all accounts was loved by his players. I also think he would have the courage to stand up to Sheens. I wouldn't even mind if he brought Gallen in to harden up the forwards. I'm not a big fan of his but as a footballer he could teach our guys a thing or two about resilience.
He was hired to be an Ambassador and do a little work in the Pathways, the club then came out and said that he would be our Phil Gould. Tim then said he was no longer interested in the role as the club had put him a position that the media would think he was making the big decisions at the club but he had no position to do so. The club then offered him a new role of Director of Football which replaced Adam Hartigan's role of Head of Football, the new role is all encompassing and he runs the football department at Wests Tigers.
Tim has been fairly hands off with the NRL side until he made the decision to part ways with the coach, which was his decision as the Director of Football, he is now leading the search for the new coach.
In memory of Geoff Chisholm (1965-2022)
Now Ricky Stuart is telling us who should be coach.
Canberra coach Ricky Stuart has declared Wests Tigers need an experienced coach who “won’t succumb to outside pressures” and can “handle the politics from above”.
That is why Stuart has ignored club rivalry to urge Wests Tigers management to appoint Tim Sheens as head coach for the next two seasons.
And Stuart’s support of Sheens was immediately shared by Raiders legends, Laurie Daley and Mal Meninga.
The push for Sheens, 71, to take over at Concord from next year is gathering momentum.
Well-placed sources claim the club hasn’t formally asked Sheens to take over – but won’t rule out the possibility either. Stuart, Daley and Meninga won premierships at Canberra in 1989, 1990 and 1994 under Sheens as head coach.
Sheens has support to be named head coach while mentoring a development coach to take over, possibly in 2025.
“I think the environment at Wests Tigers is for a coach that is experienced, can handle the politics from above and has the ability not to listen to any outside noise. And that’s Tim,” Stuart said.
“It’s not a job for a young or inexperienced coach. Tim’s not using it as leverage. You would think it would be his last-ever coaching gig and he won’t succumb to outside pressures.
“The thoroughness of Tim Sheens’ preparation and the passion he has for a club, not just the NRL team but the whole club, the juniors, pathways, is what Wests Tigers need.
“They don’t need a coach in there who will just hinge on the result of the NRL team. They need a coach who is going to build that club for the future.
“Unfortunately, they have got themselves in a position where they need that.”
Daley added: “Tim is one of the greatest coaches of all time. No one knows football better than him when it comes to knowledge.
“He could do it for two or three years while mentoring a young coach. Tim could wear the bruises over that time compared to a young coach. Why wouldn’t you get him to coach when he is there already?
“You ask all the Raiders players about their careers and they will tell you what an impact Tim had on everyone. We wouldn’t have been the players we were or had the success we had without him.”
Wests Tigers missed out on No.1 target Cameron Ciraldo and continue to discuss a range of potential coaches including Brett Kimmorley, Andrew Webster, Shane Flanagan, Stephen Kearney, Dean Young, John Morris, Jason Ryles, Josh Hannay, Kristian Woolf, David Furner and Steve Price.
The current Wests Tigers head of football, Sheens is widely regarded as one of the finest coaches of the modern era, winning three grand finals at Canberra, one more at Wests Tigers while also coaching NSW and Australia.
“Tim would do a great job. I don’t think there’s any reason why Tim can’t (coach Wests Tigers),” Meninga said.
“Maybe under a model where he coaches for a few years and brings along a younger coach at the same time who then takes over. Tim could take control for a few years and then bring on the next coach.
“Tim taught me a fair bit about footy, which was good. And then he gave me the captaincy (at Canberra), which improved my game. He taught me how to be a leader. He put his faith in me.”
Tim friggin Sheens got us in this position 10 bloody years ago .......
Now Ricky Stuart is telling us who should be coach.
Canberra coach Ricky Stuart has declared Wests Tigers need an experienced coach who “won’t succumb to outside pressures” and can “handle the politics from above”.
That is why Stuart has ignored club rivalry to urge Wests Tigers management to appoint Tim Sheens as head coach for the next two seasons.
And Stuart’s support of Sheens was immediately shared by Raiders legends, Laurie Daley and Mal Meninga.
The push for Sheens, 71, to take over at Concord from next year is gathering momentum.
Well-placed sources claim the club hasn’t formally asked Sheens to take over – but won’t rule out the possibility either. Stuart, Daley and Meninga won premierships at Canberra in 1989, 1990 and 1994 under Sheens as head coach.
Sheens has support to be named head coach while mentoring a development coach to take over, possibly in 2025.
“I think the environment at Wests Tigers is for a coach that is experienced, can handle the politics from above and has the ability not to listen to any outside noise. And that’s Tim,” Stuart said.
“It’s not a job for a young or inexperienced coach. Tim’s not using it as leverage. You would think it would be his last-ever coaching gig and he won’t succumb to outside pressures.
“The thoroughness of Tim Sheens’ preparation and the passion he has for a club, not just the NRL team but the whole club, the juniors, pathways, is what Wests Tigers need.
“They don’t need a coach in there who will just hinge on the result of the NRL team. They need a coach who is going to build that club for the future.
“Unfortunately, they have got themselves in a position where they need that.”
Daley added: “Tim is one of the greatest coaches of all time. No one knows football better than him when it comes to knowledge.
“He could do it for two or three years while mentoring a young coach. Tim could wear the bruises over that time compared to a young coach. Why wouldn’t you get him to coach when he is there already?
“You ask all the Raiders players about their careers and they will tell you what an impact Tim had on everyone. We wouldn’t have been the players we were or had the success we had without him.”
Wests Tigers missed out on No.1 target Cameron Ciraldo and continue to discuss a range of potential coaches including Brett Kimmorley, Andrew Webster, Shane Flanagan, Stephen Kearney, Dean Young, John Morris, Jason Ryles, Josh Hannay, Kristian Woolf, David Furner and Steve Price.
The current Wests Tigers head of football, Sheens is widely regarded as one of the finest coaches of the modern era, winning three grand finals at Canberra, one more at Wests Tigers while also coaching NSW and Australia.
“Tim would do a great job. I don’t think there’s any reason why Tim can’t (coach Wests Tigers),” Meninga said.
“Maybe under a model where he coaches for a few years and brings along a younger coach at the same time who then takes over. Tim could take control for a few years and then bring on the next coach.
“Tim taught me a fair bit about footy, which was good. And then he gave me the captaincy (at Canberra), which improved my game. He taught me how to be a leader. He put his faith in me.”
Tim friggin Sheens got us in this position 10 bloody years ago .......
The media are throwing darts around, I really don't think Tim will be coach.
In memory of Geoff Chisholm (1965-2022)
I can't do this anymore .....I'm taking a long break sorry
I empathise.
Everlong...
@garry I wouldn’t be too sure mate…this is the wests tigers.
I would be, I honestly think he knows it is too late in his career for that role.
In memory of Geoff Chisholm (1965-2022)
@garry I wouldn’t be too sure mate…this is the wests tigers.
I would be, I honestly think he knows it is too late in his career for that role.
Had the pleasure of working alongside Dean Lance last year. We’d have a few beers after work and when Sheens come back in the frame I asked about him.
I asked him whether he’d still like to coach and he said yes. And went on to say Tim really rated himself and is still a very competitive man. With Wayne coaching next year ….don’t be surprised I say.
That is always going to happen if you have a Director of Football
But wasn't Sheens hired predominantly to look after pathways and be 'hands off' as far as the top team?
As far as Sheens goes, I'm not at all impressed with what he's done. If he's had his hand in recent recruitment - which is what's been suggested going back to last year - he's done some very poor things (Peachy anyone?).
Then he sacked a coach with no apparent upside.
He had no replacement in place, turning finding a new coach into a race of desperation competing against several other clubs.
He's put Noddy in charge. When Madge was here he made a point of saying he had faith in the players. In Kimmorley's first press conference he says it's going to be a long, hard rebuild - undermining any remaining confidence the players may have had. He's basically told them they're not up to it.
He let Lucy and Mikaele go when we're in forward purgatory.
I know you would vomit at the thought but I'm starting to warm to Flanagan as coach and Morris as assistant. Flanagan did the wrong thing but everyone's entitled to redemption. He served a penalty and any entry back would be heavily scrutinised. He clearly has a good football brain and from all accounts was loved by his players. I also think he would have the courage to stand up to Sheens. I wouldn't even mind if he brought Gallen in to harden up the forwards. I'm not a big fan of his but as a footballer he could teach our guys a thing or two about resilience.
Yes,it begs the question,is Tim Sheens an administrator or a coach?It seems that recent decision making has been fairly ad hoc.Hard to disagree with you on most points VOR,but as far as Shane Flanagan is concerned it’s still a big NO as far as I’m concerned.We’re at a very low ebb,and with 10 games to go it can sink even lower.Even though he’s a winner,Flanno has a dark past and moral baggage that the club doesn’t need.I know he’s served his suspension,but I don’t think he’s the right fit and we should not to sink to,or tarnish our image in employing a convicted drug cheat as our head coach.
That is always going to happen if you have a Director of Football
But wasn't Sheens hired predominantly to look after pathways and be 'hands off' as far as the top team?
As far as Sheens goes, I'm not at all impressed with what he's done. If he's had his hand in recent recruitment - which is what's been suggested going back to last year - he's done some very poor things (Peachy anyone?).
Then he sacked a coach with no apparent upside.
He had no replacement in place, turning finding a new coach into a race of desperation competing against several other clubs.
He's put Noddy in charge. When Madge was here he made a point of saying he had faith in the players. In Kimmorley's first press conference he says it's going to be a long, hard rebuild - undermining any remaining confidence the players may have had. He's basically told them they're not up to it.
He let Lucy and Mikaele go when we're in forward purgatory.
I know you would vomit at the thought but I'm starting to warm to Flanagan as coach and Morris as assistant. Flanagan did the wrong thing but everyone's entitled to redemption. He served a penalty and any entry back would be heavily scrutinised. He clearly has a good football brain and from all accounts was loved by his players. I also think he would have the courage to stand up to Sheens. I wouldn't even mind if he brought Gallen in to harden up the forwards. I'm not a big fan of his but as a footballer he could teach our guys a thing or two about resilience.
Yes,it begs the question,is Tim Sheens an administrator or a coach?It seems that recent decision making has been fairly ad hoc.Hard to disagree with you on most points VOR,but as far as Shane Flanagan is concerned it’s still a big NO as far as I’m concerned.We’re at a very low ebb,and with 10 games to go it can sink even lower.Even though he’s a winner,Flanno has a dark past and moral baggage that the club doesn’t need.I know he’s served his suspension,but I don’t think he’s the right fit and we should not to sink to,or tarnish our image in employing a convicted drug cheat as our head coach.
In a lot of ways Flanagan is the coach we need, but given his behaviour at the Sharks he’s probably not what we need right now.
The fact that the club isn’t in a rush seems to indicate to me that Sheens is going to be the main man (in an as yet clearly identified way) with a younger coach having the whistle.
Wests Tigers Podcast - Talking everything Wests Tigers!
I am leaning more to Flanagan again. I believe he can introduce a winning mentality to the group, will give the best direction for I halves to be. I find his commentary very insightful, understand his past is still hard for many to deal with but for me he gets my vote now. Maybe this is desperate move but we are a desperate club looking for any success,
I can't do this anymore .....I'm taking a long break sorry
Hang in there Hap' ... tough Tiger times mate.
