It’s certainly a conundrum.
Do we keep going with the same people governing and managing the club, but expect a different result? Or do we take a broom to the place, and expect something different?
With the exception of the NRL grant Chairman Lee puts the most money into the club, so he figures (not unreasonably) that he should have a Board position. We could say to him that his time is up, but would need to accept the risk that we need to compete in the busy Sydney market for the limited supply of corporate dollars to replace Lee’s money. And do we replace a CEO who’s not been able to get us to the finals, or recognise that he’s been effective in making the club become financially stable, made the COE a reality, and has put a structure in place via Sheens to let the experts look after the football?
The situation of the coach is really difficult as well. It’s only been in the last year or so where the Tigers head coach no longer has had to spread himself right across the football department and compensate for the decisions (sadly some pretty poor ones) of the folks in charge. Can Madge flourish in the much more sustainable structure we have now and get a tailwind from investment in the development pathways? Should we give him that chance to see out the current contract and perhaps even extend again? I do worry that the game has passed his methods by, or he’ll never be able to improve the roster because we aren’t a preferred destination for players and their managers.
I don’t think we can make any decisions until the Board decides and articulates the purpose and objectives of the club. Are we intent on being a nice club with a big membership base but ultimately never a threat to the influential clubs? Or do we want to own Inner and South West Sydney, recognise and value our history while celebrating the JV and become influential ourselves?
And what are the success factors that tell us we are on track to achieving our objectives – revenue base of x, junior participation rates of y, % of junior players promoted to grade level, graded players retention rate etc, etc. Vague comments from the club about wanting to play finals football doesn’t do it for me.
Excellent post 👍 👍
Wests Tigers Podcast - Talking everything Wests Tigers!
It’s certainly a conundrum.
Do we keep going with the same people governing and managing the club, but expect a different result? Or do we take a broom to the place, and expect something different?
With the exception of the NRL grant Chairman Lee puts the most money into the club, so he figures (not unreasonably) that he should have a Board position. We could say to him that his time is up, but would need to accept the risk that we need to compete in the busy Sydney market for the limited supply of corporate dollars to replace Lee’s money. And do we replace a CEO who’s not been able to get us to the finals, or recognise that he’s been effective in making the club become financially stable, made the COE a reality, and has put a structure in place via Sheens to let the experts look after the football?
The situation of the coach is really difficult as well. It’s only been in the last year or so where the Tigers head coach no longer has had to spread himself right across the football department and compensate for the decisions (sadly some pretty poor ones) of the folks in charge. Can Madge flourish in the much more sustainable structure we have now and get a tailwind from investment in the development pathways? Should we give him that chance to see out the current contract and perhaps even extend again? I do worry that the game has passed his methods by, or he’ll never be able to improve the roster because we aren’t a preferred destination for players and their managers.
I don’t think we can make any decisions until the Board decides and articulates the purpose and objectives of the club. Are we intent on being a nice club with a big membership base but ultimately never a threat to the influential clubs? Or do we want to own Inner and South West Sydney, recognise and value our history while celebrating the JV and become influential ourselves?
And what are the success factors that tell us we are on track to achieving our objectives – revenue base of x, junior participation rates of y, % of junior players promoted to grade level, graded players retention rate etc, etc. Vague comments from the club about wanting to play finals football doesn’t do it for me.
Excellent post 👍 👍
Makes depressing reading @mactiger .....20 year plan ???
It’s certainly a conundrum.
Do we keep going with the same people governing and managing the club, but expect a different result? Or do we take a broom to the place, and expect something different?
With the exception of the NRL grant Chairman Lee puts the most money into the club, so he figures (not unreasonably) that he should have a Board position. We could say to him that his time is up, but would need to accept the risk that we need to compete in the busy Sydney market for the limited supply of corporate dollars to replace Lee’s money. And do we replace a CEO who’s not been able to get us to the finals, or recognise that he’s been effective in making the club become financially stable, made the COE a reality, and has put a structure in place via Sheens to let the experts look after the football?
The situation of the coach is really difficult as well. It’s only been in the last year or so where the Tigers head coach no longer has had to spread himself right across the football department and compensate for the decisions (sadly some pretty poor ones) of the folks in charge. Can Madge flourish in the much more sustainable structure we have now and get a tailwind from investment in the development pathways? Should we give him that chance to see out the current contract and perhaps even extend again? I do worry that the game has passed his methods by, or he’ll never be able to improve the roster because we aren’t a preferred destination for players and their managers.
I don’t think we can make any decisions until the Board decides and articulates the purpose and objectives of the club. Are we intent on being a nice club with a big membership base but ultimately never a threat to the influential clubs? Or do we want to own Inner and South West Sydney, recognise and value our history while celebrating the JV and become influential ourselves?
And what are the success factors that tell us we are on track to achieving our objectives – revenue base of x, junior participation rates of y, % of junior players promoted to grade level, graded players retention rate etc, etc. Vague comments from the club about wanting to play finals football doesn’t do it for me.
Good post Mac T.
I agree with you re.the board having to articulate its objectives on a range of issues.To me there lies the question,but are those on the board capable of objectifying their own shortcomings or are they more self interested and protective of their positions? It can’t be denied that the board has presided over some spectacularly bad decisions over the last decade.I believe a lot of those decisions were governed by a complete lack of Rugby League knowledge or Rugby League instincts.
Now that Tim Sheens is at the club,coupled with the inception of the COE, and as hard as it is to swallow,I believe more patience is required.Obviously the issue of governance and overhauling the board remains.No idea how that is realised though until full voting rights become a reality.
Would be lovely to get a win at Shark park but we’ll have to play out of our skin and eradicate silly plays.Big litmus test in regards to the character of this team.
It’s certainly a conundrum.
Do we keep going with the same people governing and managing the club, but expect a different result? Or do we take a broom to the place, and expect something different?
With the exception of the NRL grant Chairman Lee puts the most money into the club, so he figures (not unreasonably) that he should have a Board position. We could say to him that his time is up, but would need to accept the risk that we need to compete in the busy Sydney market for the limited supply of corporate dollars to replace Lee’s money. And do we replace a CEO who’s not been able to get us to the finals, or recognise that he’s been effective in making the club become financially stable, made the COE a reality, and has put a structure in place via Sheens to let the experts look after the football?
The situation of the coach is really difficult as well. It’s only been in the last year or so where the Tigers head coach no longer has had to spread himself right across the football department and compensate for the decisions (sadly some pretty poor ones) of the folks in charge. Can Madge flourish in the much more sustainable structure we have now and get a tailwind from investment in the development pathways? Should we give him that chance to see out the current contract and perhaps even extend again? I do worry that the game has passed his methods by, or he’ll never be able to improve the roster because we aren’t a preferred destination for players and their managers.
I don’t think we can make any decisions until the Board decides and articulates the purpose and objectives of the club. Are we intent on being a nice club with a big membership base but ultimately never a threat to the influential clubs? Or do we want to own Inner and South West Sydney, recognise and value our history while celebrating the JV and become influential ourselves?
And what are the success factors that tell us we are on track to achieving our objectives – revenue base of x, junior participation rates of y, % of junior players promoted to grade level, graded players retention rate etc, etc. Vague comments from the club about wanting to play finals football doesn’t do it for me.
Good post Mac T.
I agree with you re.the board having to articulate its objectives on a range of issues.To me there lies the question,but are those on the board capable of objectifying their own shortcomings or are they more self interested and protective of their positions? It can’t be denied that the board has presided over some spectacularly bad decisions over the last decade.I believe a lot of those decisions were governed by a complete lack of Rugby League knowledge or Rugby League instincts.
Now that Tim Sheens is at the club,coupled with the inception of the COE, and as hard as it is to swallow,I believe more patience is required.Obviously the issue of governance and overhauling the board remains.No idea how that is realised though until full voting rights become a reality.
Would be lovely to get a win at Shark park but we’ll have to play out of our skin and eradicate silly plays.Big litmus test in regards to the character of this team.
Full voting rights are highly unlikely to ever become a reality
In memory of Geoff Chisholm (1965-2022)
It’s certainly a conundrum.
Do we keep going with the same people governing and managing the club, but expect a different result? Or do we take a broom to the place, and expect something different?
With the exception of the NRL grant Chairman Lee puts the most money into the club, so he figures (not unreasonably) that he should have a Board position. We could say to him that his time is up, but would need to accept the risk that we need to compete in the busy Sydney market for the limited supply of corporate dollars to replace Lee’s money. And do we replace a CEO who’s not been able to get us to the finals, or recognise that he’s been effective in making the club become financially stable, made the COE a reality, and has put a structure in place via Sheens to let the experts look after the football?
The situation of the coach is really difficult as well. It’s only been in the last year or so where the Tigers head coach no longer has had to spread himself right across the football department and compensate for the decisions (sadly some pretty poor ones) of the folks in charge. Can Madge flourish in the much more sustainable structure we have now and get a tailwind from investment in the development pathways? Should we give him that chance to see out the current contract and perhaps even extend again? I do worry that the game has passed his methods by, or he’ll never be able to improve the roster because we aren’t a preferred destination for players and their managers.
I don’t think we can make any decisions until the Board decides and articulates the purpose and objectives of the club. Are we intent on being a nice club with a big membership base but ultimately never a threat to the influential clubs? Or do we want to own Inner and South West Sydney, recognise and value our history while celebrating the JV and become influential ourselves?
And what are the success factors that tell us we are on track to achieving our objectives – revenue base of x, junior participation rates of y, % of junior players promoted to grade level, graded players retention rate etc, etc. Vague comments from the club about wanting to play finals football doesn’t do it for me.
Good post Mac T.
I agree with you re.the board having to articulate its objectives on a range of issues.To me there lies the question,but are those on the board capable of objectifying their own shortcomings or are they more self interested and protective of their positions? It can’t be denied that the board has presided over some spectacularly bad decisions over the last decade.I believe a lot of those decisions were governed by a complete lack of Rugby League knowledge or Rugby League instincts.
Now that Tim Sheens is at the club,coupled with the inception of the COE, and as hard as it is to swallow,I believe more patience is required.Obviously the issue of governance and overhauling the board remains.No idea how that is realised though until full voting rights become a reality.
Would be lovely to get a win at Shark park but we’ll have to play out of our skin and eradicate silly plays.Big litmus test in regards to the character of this team.
Full voting rights are highly unlikely to ever become a reality
True.Show me a power base that relinquishes it’s power.
I think the ownership structure and the goals of the owners of the club is the starting point. Wests Ashfield has done an amazing job supporting the JV through the turbulent first 20yrs of the club but I would personally support a majority privatisation of the football club to drive the next generation of professionalisation and modernisation. The question needs to be asked by Wests Asfield “what is their purpose and mandate”. Whilst Leagues clubs were originally established to support local football, and acknowledging there can be modern day exceptions (panthers?) I think that in 2022 Wests Ashfield should not be focussed on managing an NRL business.
the key elements of a change for me would be:
1) majority ownership by private investors who have control over the commercial management of the club
2) significant residual ownership (board membership etc) by the foundation clubs to retain link between NRL club and community (and lock in the pathways between the two)
3) fan/membership representation on the Board
4) constitutional protection to ensure that any critical decision that would significantly change the club (on moving the Tigers out of Sydney as an example) and would need to be approved by a super majority of the Board (members, foundation clubs and private investors).
It’s certainly a conundrum.
Do we keep going with the same people governing and managing the club, but expect a different result? Or do we take a broom to the place, and expect something different?
With the exception of the NRL grant Chairman Lee puts the most money into the club, so he figures (not unreasonably) that he should have a Board position. We could say to him that his time is up, but would need to accept the risk that we need to compete in the busy Sydney market for the limited supply of corporate dollars to replace Lee’s money. And do we replace a CEO who’s not been able to get us to the finals, or recognise that he’s been effective in making the club become financially stable, made the COE a reality, and has put a structure in place via Sheens to let the experts look after the football?
The situation of the coach is really difficult as well. It’s only been in the last year or so where the Tigers head coach no longer has had to spread himself right across the football department and compensate for the decisions (sadly some pretty poor ones) of the folks in charge. Can Madge flourish in the much more sustainable structure we have now and get a tailwind from investment in the development pathways? Should we give him that chance to see out the current contract and perhaps even extend again? I do worry that the game has passed his methods by, or he’ll never be able to improve the roster because we aren’t a preferred destination for players and their managers.
I don’t think we can make any decisions until the Board decides and articulates the purpose and objectives of the club. Are we intent on being a nice club with a big membership base but ultimately never a threat to the influential clubs? Or do we want to own Inner and South West Sydney, recognise and value our history while celebrating the JV and become influential ourselves?
And what are the success factors that tell us we are on track to achieving our objectives – revenue base of x, junior participation rates of y, % of junior players promoted to grade level, graded players retention rate etc, etc. Vague comments from the club about wanting to play finals football doesn’t do it for me.
Good post Mac T.
I agree with you re.the board having to articulate its objectives on a range of issues.To me there lies the question,but are those on the board capable of objectifying their own shortcomings or are they more self interested and protective of their positions? It can’t be denied that the board has presided over some spectacularly bad decisions over the last decade.I believe a lot of those decisions were governed by a complete lack of Rugby League knowledge or Rugby League instincts.
Now that Tim Sheens is at the club,coupled with the inception of the COE, and as hard as it is to swallow,I believe more patience is required.Obviously the issue of governance and overhauling the board remains.No idea how that is realised though until full voting rights become a reality.
Would be lovely to get a win at Shark park but we’ll have to play out of our skin and eradicate silly plays.Big litmus test in regards to the character of this team.
Full voting rights are highly unlikely to ever become a reality
Agreed and thats a good thing IMO. Full voting rights will not solve the problem and is likely to make the problem worse. Balmain members had full voting rights (I was a voting member) as did Western Suburbs and look where it got them. In a large professional organisation looking to attract major international companies for sponsorship and to have a stable structure that isnt overturned every 12 to 18months, you dont want 20,000 well meaning football fan morons calling the shorts no matter how much, you, I and all of us think we know the answer.
Parra are the only team in last years top 8 that members have voting rights and I wouldnt use them as a benchmark for governance.
IMO, it sounds like a good idea but would be the end of us.
Agreed and thats a good thing IMO. Full voting rights will not solve the problem and is likely to make the problem worse. Balmain members had full voting rights (I was a voting member) as did Western Suburbs and look where it got them. In a large professional organisation looking to attract major international companies for sponsorship and to have a stable structure that isnt overturned every 12 to 18months, you dont want 20,000 well meaning football fan morons calling the shorts no matter how much, you, I and all of us think we know the answer.
Parra are the only team in last years top 8 that members have voting rights and I wouldnt use them as a benchmark for governance.
IMO, it sounds like a good idea but would be the end of us.
Agree that 100% fan voted Board would be a disaster. A hybrid model would be a good compromise. Sponsors have representation currently via the Chairperson (ie external to Wests Ashfield). It would be nice, where 1 or 2 members of the Board would be voted by the membership, so there is at least some fan representation at that level.
Agreed and thats a good thing IMO. Full voting rights will not solve the problem and is likely to make the problem worse. Balmain members had full voting rights (I was a voting member) as did Western Suburbs and look where it got them. In a large professional organisation looking to attract major international companies for sponsorship and to have a stable structure that isnt overturned every 12 to 18months, you dont want 20,000 well meaning football fan morons calling the shorts no matter how much, you, I and all of us think we know the answer.
Parra are the only team in last years top 8 that members have voting rights and I wouldnt use them as a benchmark for governance.
IMO, it sounds like a good idea but would be the end of us.
Agree that 100% fan voted Board would be a disaster. A hybrid model would be a good compromise. Sponsors have representation currently via the Chairperson (ie external to Wests Ashfield). It would be nice, where 1 or 2 members of the Board would be voted by the membership, so there is at least some fan representation at that level.
I think that there is some merit in that idea, but the problem I have with it right now, is that you dont want to further dilute the professionalism on the current board, we need to do the opposite.
For me the real issue is that of the 8 board members only 2 of them are not from Wests Ashfield or Balmain. One of them is Lee (our major sponsor) and the other is James Myatt whose professional experience is in the energy sector. There is almost zero professional expertise and experience on the board. We need some heavy hitters with extensive corporate experience. Could do with a bit more football experience as well.
Agreed and thats a good thing IMO. Full voting rights will not solve the problem and is likely to make the problem worse. Balmain members had full voting rights (I was a voting member) as did Western Suburbs and look where it got them. In a large professional organisation looking to attract major international companies for sponsorship and to have a stable structure that isnt overturned every 12 to 18months, you dont want 20,000 well meaning football fan morons calling the shorts no matter how much, you, I and all of us think we know the answer.
Parra are the only team in last years top 8 that members have voting rights and I wouldnt use them as a benchmark for governance.
IMO, it sounds like a good idea but would be the end of us.
Agree that 100% fan voted Board would be a disaster. A hybrid model would be a good compromise. Sponsors have representation currently via the Chairperson (ie external to Wests Ashfield). It would be nice, where 1 or 2 members of the Board would be voted by the membership, so there is at least some fan representation at that level.
Agree Mike, a hybrid model sounds sensible.
Wests Tigers Podcast - Talking everything Wests Tigers!
I think we'd all agree that relevant experience and consistent good judgement are attributes you'd want to see in members of a Board. I have some experience with registered clubs, and this is an area where failure or underperformance can often be traced back to a lack of effectiveness of Board members – usually because the membership have voted in well meaning folk who aren’t sufficiently skilled or unwilling to make the hard decisions. And it’s a bit of a thankless task – there's not much money involved in being a director of a registered club, and that means ego sometimes becomes the motivating factor which can be just as bad.
I’m not suggesting for a moment that the WT Board aren’t capable. If you look at the background of the members it actually looks pretty strong – all but one are from corporate or small business backgrounds and some have board experience outside WT. Same thing with the Wests Ashfield board who dominate the WT board. They should be able to make good contributions and given the concentration - should be pulling in the same direction.
Maybe we have what we need now – the hard decisions have been taken to set up for success. To Tiger Symmetry’s point – do we just need to be patient? It took Phil Gould a long time to get the Panthers to where it is today.
