A poll we can discuss on Sunday Night Live.
Was it the right decision to appoint Sheens, Farah and Benji?
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yup i think so, we have failed with conventional coaches over the last 10 years. I think it is a ballsy decision to go this way but in a way im kind of happy the club did this. This will make or break the club but I admire the club for going down this road. Me for one will buckle up and get ready for this wild ride over the next few years and look forward to it.
I think also Benji may be able to attract a few players and that is something we desperately need!!
Since the Club fell apart in the early 2010s and we booted Sheens and we installed people without football knowledge (Marina Go, Grant Meyer, Pascoe etc) because we needed more “outside experience” the club has been in a complete hole and totally soulless. Playing in 6 home grounds, playing one out Bellamy clone game plans from 2011 without the systems or players to make it work and with the decline in performance on the field a total inability to recruit rep level talent whilst losing the fruit of a golden generation of players.
In some ways this move takes the club back to 2012 in terms of bringing back Sheens and bringing back the culture of that group of players that emerged in the early 2000s but who we ultimately let down by the basket case that was the club during the final days of Balmain. This time around we are financially secure, have vastly more resources, have stable (too stable?) ownership and perhaps are close to nailing down roots at one (or two) home grounds. I don’t think you forget how to coach after being as successful as Sheens across such a long period of time, and I also don’t think you need to be an assistant to one of the top coaches to be a successful coach (see all the young coaches who have failed to become the next Bellamy etc). I do believe Benji will go a long way to fixing our recruitment problems (we only need one or two really long quality recruits to pair with our juniors and existing talent) and with a bit of luck we will find ourselves back in the mid table pack relatively quickly. Once there the massive pressure on the club starts to recede and maybe we can challenge for the top 4 in a few years once our young blood starts to come through more consistently (like we are seeing at Penrith )
I was so happy about the decision initially, but on reflection this was all nostalgic. But after listening to the podcast today, I'm even more convinced it is a bold but positive decision. The comments about developing the team with Wests Tigers DNA, yet bringing in an outside coach means the club pivots to suit them.
It’s a panicked Hail Mary. Not exactly the panicked response I expected but just as incompetent a response as I expected, and they still panicked. Terrible governance and decision making. This has disaster written all over it.
Sheens has not been successful since he left, over 10 years now, and that has been in a second tier competition. Also remember he sued the club as well after they sacked him. Benji and Farah are deadset rookies when it comes to coaching. I doubt Benji will be able to overcome his self interest, it’s all about Benji, to be a decent coach. It’s about people management and I just don’t see it. If it wasn’t so depressing I’d be laughing.
It’s a panicked Hail Mary. Not exactly the panicked response I expected but just as incompetent a response as I expected, and they still panicked. Terrible governance and decision making. This has disaster written all over it.
Sheens has not been successful since he left, over 10 years now, and that has been in a second tier competition. Also remember he sued the club as well after they sacked him. Benji and Farah are deadset rookies when it comes to coaching. I doubt Benji will be able to overcome his self interest, it’s all about Benji, to be a decent coach. It’s about people management and I just don’t see it. If it wasn’t so depressing I’d be laughing.
You can characterise it as a Hail Mary. In truth as a club we were stuck in a stable equilibrium where we were a bottom 4 club. Increasing the potential range of outcomes via adopting a riskier strategy actually makes some sort sense
Yesterday I was stunned and thougth it was a joke and destined for disaster. The more I have thought about it, and after listening to the boys excellent discussion on the podcast, Ive actually changed my mind. THis club needs a jolt and needs to do things differently and many of the boxes that we need ticked get ticked by this plan.
The one big fault in my mind has been Benji's lack of coaching experience and I feel that he should have had to serve an "apprenticeship" in the lower grades, but the moreI think about it, if you compare the experience of basically being left alone with a Flegg or Cup team, learning on the job and trying to pick it up by experience vs literally sitting at Sheens right hand watching videos with him, going through each session with him, you probably couldnt ask for a better education.
I am very wary about it. But at the very least we now have a few people who actually care about the club. I am against us hiring someone like Geoff Toovey because he is a Manly guy. No 2 ways about it. Like if Freddy went to the Dogs, he is a Rooster and maybe a Panther but definitely not a Bulldog. Marshall and Farah are tigers...and there aren't that many really
I look forward to catching up on the recent podcasts but there is no doubt in my mind that the club needed something special for this appointment and you know what? This could be it.
Q: Why Benji?
A: We caught up for breakfast a couple of weeks ago at Concord. A cafe called Organica. He’d made it known to Justin Pascoe that he was keen to coach at some stage. We had a long chat. He was all in and prepared to give up everything else.
Q: Some see it as a publicity stunt. A big name to take some pressure off the administration.
A: Oh please. You really think that. It’s an insult to Benji and everyone else in our organisation. He is going to work his backside off to make this work. He’s always worked hard and that’s why he’s been successful. We genuinely think that in two years time he’ll be ready and that he’s the best option. Let’s see what the critics want to say then. Just give him a chance.
Q: Does he fully understand what he’s getting into?
A: Players sometimes don’t understand. They come to training, everything has been prepared for them, they do their work and then go home. That’s their day. The coaching staff works much longer hours. It can be a 24/7 job. Now and again you sneak in a day off. I wanted Benji to know exactly what he’s walking into. We spoke about his young family. All of that.
Q: Were you surprised he wanted to coach so soon after retiring?
A: I got the impression that while he was grateful to have all the media work, he wasn’t getting the satisfaction that he really wanted out of it. He wanted to be a coach.
Q: You obviously think he’ll make it?
A: I’m very confident he’ll make the transition. He’s got a couple of years. There will be some heavy schooling. He’s very intelligent, as is Robbie Farah. They’ll work off each other. Benji has had a long career in the spine and has a great knowledge of the game.
Q: You’ve had a bit to do with a few handy coaches. You gave Craig Bellamy his first coaching job, you coached Ricky Stuart, and more recently Todd Payten.
A: Toddy was a halfback in a front-rower’s body. I haven’t made any of them great coaches. I recognised they had potential. They’ve forged their own successful careers. It’s more than just knowing the game. They were destined to be good coaches.
Your demeanour, your personality, your presence, your ability to cope with pressure, the media, the highs and lows, and the challenges of making family sacrifices. Even at home your head can be stuck in football. If you’re going well, there’s pressure to keep it going. If you’re going bad, there’s pressure to fix it. The more I discussed all this with Benji, the more excited he got.
Q: It still can be seen as a gamble.
A: Benji has that special ability to be able to communicate with all the age groups from senior players to kids in the pathway systems. He’ll understand that not everyone will be as talented as he was. His personality is really important. He’s had that infectious manner since he came in as a 17-year-old. That will help us with recruitment.
Benji is very well respected and connected among players across the game. He’s so energetic. The apprenticeship over the next couple of years will be pretty heavy but he’s up for it. He’s played under me, Wayne (Bennett) and a lot of experienced coaches who have broadened his knowledge.
Q: What about yourself? It’s a big job. You’re coaching Benji and a footy team.
A: Benji’s not a boy. He’ll be contributing as an assistant coach. He’s had 300 games. He’s not coming in as a rookie.
Q: Why are you doing it, Tim? You could have made it a lot easier for yourself and stayed on as head of football and appointed a Shane Flanagan or Paul Green.
A: We decided to go with someone with Wests Tigers DNA. I only made the decision on Thursday. I’ve thought long and hard about it.
Q: You’re 71, Tim. Where does the energy come from?
A: I’m not that old. Are we going to start talking about ages? You’re an old journo. That doesn’t mean you’re finished up. I’ve just walked 30 kilometres up Mount Victoria with Simmo (Royce Simmons). I love doing what I’m doing. I love the challenges and having experience can give you an edge. That’s the way I look at it.
Q: It’s a big commitment, Tim. The Wests Tigers isn’t an easy job.
A: You think I don’t realise that? You’re up at 6am each day and you’re normally among the last to finish. Of course it’s hard work but that’s the case in most jobs if you want success.
Q: It’s an important part of your job to shut down the constant leaks.
A: These things sort themselves out. We’re an easy shot at the moment because we’ve slid to the bottom. We’ve got to claw our way back. We start having some success and there’s nothing to leak.
Q: What message have you got for Wests Tigers fans who have had little to cheer about?
A: Our plan is to build in the next three years into the club we want to be. That’s consistently playing finals football and not just bouncing out in week one.
Over three years our good 17-year-olds will become 20, and our good 19-year-olds will become 22. We’ll be in the market for good senior players like Api Koroisau and Isaiah Papali’I. I’m not going to put a date on anything but we’ll get the football club into a strong position. Our results recently are not acceptable even for a one-off year let alone over a long period of time.
Q: Is Luke Brooks part of your long-term plan?
A: I’d like to see Brooksy stay. Under Benji’s influence it will be very interesting. In 2018 he was Dally M halfback of the year. He nearly won the whole award. You don’t just lose that talent. It’s up to us to help him find that form again. Benji has that ability to get through to people. He always has. As he’s got older he’s become a great mentor. I really think they’ll work great together.
Q: What about your front office? The board and the CEO Justin Pascoe are always copping flak.
A: I can tell you we’re in really good shape in administration and I’ve worked for a lot of organisations. We have all the resources we need and the new centre of excellence. When I came back late last year I couldn’t believe how strong we were financially.
I remember in 2005 we had a burst water pipe at training. We could hardly afford a plumber. Our physio Andrew Leeds grabbed some tools and fixed it himself. We still had weights in pounds, not kilos.
The year we won the comp we played $600,000 under the salary cap because that’s all the money we had. We still had a loan we were paying back to the NRL.
Justin and Lee (Hagipantelis) cop a lot of flak, but a lot of it’s unwarranted. The football department now is financially in great shape.
Q: Good luck. I hope you can turn it around.
A: Well, we haven’t put our cue in the rack for this year. We’ll give some more young players some opportunities. We’re out there to win every week and to improve. It’s been tough but it’s actually a really exciting time for the club.
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First box ticked imo. Getting our message out there by having journos like Rothfield onside is important. It’s not the most important thing for the club to focus on but it will relieve some pressure.
Adam Doueihi needs to be careful. The coach is backing Brooks (rightly so imo) and Sheens stated at our Ambush function that he wants players who will do what’s best for the team. I love Doueihi’s passion and fight and he should be in our 17 somewhere but I think if he demands one position he will not last.
Also, absolutely love Sheens’ humility in stating coaches he mentored forged their own destinies. In a world of self importance and people thinking they are the centre of the universe, these old fashioned values are comforting
After days of dwelling on this decision I do like the way the club has decided to pull one out of the box … looking at the perspective applicants for the job it really was uninspiring Yesterday days hero’s / assistants looking for a gig . The decision is still one that could blow up but really nothing ventured nothing gained I suppose! One aspect is our family have decided to re engage with the club which will equate to 12 premium memberships next season as Benji is held in high regard and we do like what is being relayed by the club ,there seems light at the end of the tunnel. We see no reason to mull over the clubs motives as what was on offer never filled us with confidence anyway. Supporting our club has always been a roll a coaster ride maybe this group of three are going to reinvigorate the game as it certainly needs it !
After days of dwelling on this decision I do like the way the club has decided to pull one out of the box … looking at the perspective applicants for the job it really was uninspiring Yesterday days hero’s / assistants looking for a gig . The decision is still one that could blow up but really nothing ventured nothing gained I suppose! One aspect is our family have decided to re engage with the club which will equate to 12 premium memberships next season as Benji is held in high regard and we do like what is being relayed by the club ,there seems light at the end of the tunnel. We see no reason to mull over the clubs motives as what was on offer never filled us with confidence anyway. Supporting our club has always been a roll a coaster ride maybe this group of three are going to reinvigorate the game as it certainly needs it !
This is kind of my take on it as well mate, this could fail spectacularly but it could be a huge success, one thing is for sure is it won't be boring.
I said in another thread last night that Benji really is in a great position, when he takes over in 2025 we only have 3 maybe 4 of the current squad on contract. He really has an opportunity to build his own team before he takes the reigns. If he can attract players then this team could look so different by the time he is coach.
In memory of Geoff Chisholm (1965-2022)
I’m more optimistic with Sheens/Marshall/Farah than the other options, even Ciraldo. Unfortunately for the other coaches in the mix, perceptions of their weaknesses can stick like mud, even when they are unwarranted. If we’d gone with Morris the Murdoch press would have been at nauseam about his inability to attract players.
Benji is one of the biggest brands in Rugby League, he’s well respected and connected, including Fox which is important considering the influence it has over the public. As Sheens points out he’s worked hard to achieve his reputation and status in the game, and that’s got to be a big asset in his favour to get the right people around him and bring over the quality players we might need. Benji has experienced enough of the highs and lows, successes and failures in the game to reflect upon and be guided by, he’s experienced it all and continues to flourish post football career. There’s something unique about Benji, and hearing him and Sheens talk about their plans raises my optimism for the journey ahead.
We have money, we have the COE, we have Api and Papi and some good young first grader. Now we have a coaching team locked in for the 5 years.
the most important thing for the club to execute now is getting another 2 marquee level players who can be the difference when we are matching the better teams but need something special. We have the salary cap, I just hope Benji/Sheens can convince them we have a future
