Sheens also handed us our first wooden spoon. Don’t ever forget that.
This isn’t true but even if it was, so what. There is no real difference in finishing 9th or last. Sheens made the decision to clean out the club last year after it became clear we couldn’t make the finals. He got Kimmorley to give young guys a go even though it might be counterproductive immediately. These were the right calls and gee we are looking good because of them.
It is absolutely true. Let’s keep the record straight the Spoon is all his.
The spoon was all Madge, as was the appalling fitness of the players, the ridiculous game plans and the embarrassing recruitment during his tenure. The second half of the season was a culmination of 3.5 years of horrible decisions done by a coach that was completely clueless and out of his depth. But every cloud has a silver lining, and i'm very impressed Sheens has managed to undo so many of Madge's wrongs already. I thought the damage Madge did would haunt us for years.
Nonsense. Had he been sacked at the end of 2021 or allowed to complete the 2022 season Wests Tigers would not have got the wooden spoon. This is all on Sheens.
It’s bizarre that people defend Madge. We got worse every year under his tenure. He made appalling recruitment decisions (Peachey) and no player improved under him, other than Leilua.
I liked Madge and defended him until last year when it became clear my 80 yr old mother knew more about rugby league than Madge
@mike why do you continue to defend the worst coach in WT history? He was a complete disaster. If Madge had have done his job in the first place we'd have never been in that position.
I am not defending Madge as the coach. I am simply pointing out Sheens poor decision making in this instance. How and when Madge was sacked is why Wests Tigers got the Wooden Spoon. Once Madge was sacked midway through the 2022 season by Sheens and Sheens putting in a rookie coach to replace Madge there was only ever going to be one outcome.
It’s bizarre that people defend Madge. We got worse every year under his tenure. He made appalling recruitment decisions (Peachey) and no player improved under him, other than Leilua.
I liked Madge and defended him until last year when it became clear my 80 yr old mother knew more about rugby league than Madge
I find it quite bizarre that people ignore what Sheens has done. See above post.
we were only in that position because of Madge's incompetence.@mike why do you continue to defend the worst coach in WT history? He was a complete disaster. If Madge had have done his job in the first place we'd have never been in that position.
I am not defending Madge as the coach. I am simply pointing out Sheens poor decision making in this instance. How and when Madge was sacked is why Wests Tigers got the Wooden Spoon. Once Madge was sacked midway through the 2022 season by Sheens and Sheens putting in a rookie coach to replace Madge there was only ever going to be one outcome.
Sheens also handed us our first wooden spoon. Don’t ever forget that.
This isn’t true but even if it was, so what. There is no real difference in finishing 9th or last. Sheens made the decision to clean out the club last year after it became clear we couldn’t make the finals. He got Kimmorley to give young guys a go even though it might be counterproductive immediately. These were the right calls and gee we are looking good because of them.
It is absolutely true. Let’s keep the record straight the Spoon is all his.
The spoon was all Madge, as was the appalling fitness of the players, the ridiculous game plans and the embarrassing recruitment during his tenure. The second half of the season was a culmination of 3.5 years of horrible decisions done by a coach that was completely clueless and out of his depth. But every cloud has a silver lining, and i'm very impressed Sheens has managed to undo so many of Madge's wrongs already. I thought the damage Madge did would haunt us for years.
Spot on 👍
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@mike why do you continue to defend the worst coach in WT history? He was a complete disaster. If Madge had have done his job in the first place we'd have never been in that position.
I am not defending Madge as the coach. I am simply pointing out Sheens poor decision making in this instance. How and when Madge was sacked is why Wests Tigers got the Wooden Spoon. Once Madge was sacked midway through the 2022 season by Sheens and Sheens putting in a rookie coach to replace Madge there was only ever going to be one outcome.
Mike, I think we were already sailing towards that iceberg (or near to) when we parted ways with Madge. All academic now.
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@mike why do you continue to defend the worst coach in WT history? He was a complete disaster. If Madge had have done his job in the first place we'd have never been in that position.
I am not defending Madge as the coach. I am simply pointing out Sheens poor decision making in this instance. How and when Madge was sacked is why Wests Tigers got the Wooden Spoon. Once Madge was sacked midway through the 2022 season by Sheens and Sheens putting in a rookie coach to replace Madge there was only ever going to be one outcome.
Mike, I think we were already sailing towards that iceberg (or near to) when we parted ways with Madge. All academic now.
This thread is about Sheens Record at the Tigers, not Madge (good or bad).
From where I am standing Sheens record isn’t that great.
1 Premiership
1 Wooden Spoon
A couple of finals appearances
Not than anyone else has done any better but let’s not sugar coat it either. Will it be better moving forward, let’s hope so. Also remember that Sheens has been sacked from of number of clubs, including the Wests Tigers. He also hasn’t had success in the last ten years, I think. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong.
Now are we in a better position than we were? I think so but that’s yet to be proven on the field. I’m hoping for a finals appearance this year.
But that doesn’t change the fact that Sheens current record is not all that great. I’m hoping that will all change in the next two years in time for Benji to take over.
If you want to argue that Madge was a bad or good coach there are plenty of threads for that.
I stand by what I said (of course these are all just my opinions). The decisions that Sheens made or did not make at the end of 2021 and during the 2022 season directly led to the Wests Tigers getting the Wooden Spoon. Sheens owns the 2022 Wooden Spoon.
The day that Madge was sacked was day 1 of the Tigers 2023 campaign and I’m grateful for that as well as the fact that our coaching staff have had a preseason three months longer than the other clubs.
to an extent Sheens record in the past a recent is almost irrelevant. Sheens isn’t just being parachuted in as a savior coach he is a massive part of a totally systemic restructuring of a club that has been perpetually failing. This restructure is literally from the ground up, facilities, pathways, juniors, skill development, recruitment and most importantly a development system for coaching and management to get us out of a cycle of begging for a messiah every 2-3years.
no guarantees that it will work but the principles of what they are doing are unarguable and imo it’s incongruous when considering the biggest restructuring of our club in its history to point at what Sheens did in 2009 or at Salford.
Sheens also handed us our first wooden spoon. Don’t ever forget that.
This isn’t true but even if it was, so what. There is no real difference in finishing 9th or last. Sheens made the decision to clean out the club last year after it became clear we couldn’t make the finals. He got Kimmorley to give young guys a go even though it might be counterproductive immediately. These were the right calls and gee we are looking good because of them.
It is absolutely true. Let’s keep the record straight the Spoon is all his.
The spoon was all Madge, as was the appalling fitness of the players, the ridiculous game plans and the embarrassing recruitment during his tenure. The second half of the season was a culmination of 3.5 years of horrible decisions done by a coach that was completely clueless and out of his depth. But every cloud has a silver lining, and i'm very impressed Sheens has managed to undo so many of Madge's wrongs already. I thought the damage Madge did would haunt us for years.
Nonsense. Had he been sacked at the end of 2021 or allowed to complete the 2022 season Wests Tigers would not have got the wooden spoon. This is all on Sheens.
I cannot agree with this, I don't think Sheens had much choice over the timing of the sacking. Walking into a management role at a workplace I would give staff at least 6 months to show what they add to the organisation, I have used this strategy many times in the past. So I completely understand Sheens not wanting to sack the coach the moment he landed in the country, that is the sign of a smart operator. Once it became apparent that Madge wasn't going to be the coach moving forward, we couldn't allow him to be building the roster for 2024 and beyond. The only way to take him out of that role is to terminate him from the head coaching role. The timing of the sacking was unfortunate but I don't believe there was much of a choice under the circumstances.
You can argue about the selection of Kimmorley as coach for the remainder of the season but I do not believe there was much that could be done to save the season at that point in time.
In memory of Geoff Chisholm (1965-2022)
I thought I would bump this.
The last 5 weeks have been classic Sheens. Slowly building throughout the year.
Not sure why some were underwhelmed. It was clear from the Manly game we have been heading in the right direction.
The weekend was a culmination of that.
Great to be positive about the club again.
I thought I would bump this.
The last 5 weeks have been classic Sheens. Slowly building throughout the year.
Not sure why some were underwhelmed. It was clear from the Manly game we have been heading in the right direction.
The weekend was a culmination of that.
Great to be positive about the club again.
True, and it’s familiar because we have a team of mostly unwanted old heads interspersed with exciting youngsters.
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I came across a post on that other Forum that stated Sheens only made the finals 3 times in 10 years with us and that was unacceptable.
Now, clearly the record is correct but I thought it was worthwhile digging a but deeper.
Admittedly, Im a Sheens fan. He is, clestly IMO, the best coach Ive seen in supporting the Tigers for 38 years. Yes, that includes Warren Ryan.
So, Sheens started with us in 2003. We were a basket case. The squad was close to the worst first grade squad in history after the Lamb and Pearce fiascos. For that reason, I think it was unreasonable to expect Sheens to make the finals in 2003 and 2004. They were rebuilding years.
2005 we all know what happened. Yay.
2006 we lose Marshall to an injury early in the season. We still play well in some games. We lose 3 games depsite leading with 5 minutes to go. We lose 2 more games in golden point. We finish 11th but we are a much better side than that, as our performance against the Dragons in Rd 1 showed.
2007 we lost our two best players from 2006. Prince and Laffranchi. We also lost Skando. The players we bought (O’Hara, Morris and Lolesi) didnt deliver on the promise. We ended up with Farah playing 7 for a portion of the year. In truth, it was a rebuilding year. Marshall was again injured for a large portion of the season (11 rounds). Hodgo missed 7 rounds. Despite all of this, we finished 9th. Decent effort given circumstances. We missed the finals on F/A and had lost our first four rounds by small margins
2008. Similar story Injuries to Farah and Marshall (8 weeks) early in the season crueled our start. Bought Matty Head to solve halves problem Didnt quite work. I dont remember much about the season as I was living overseas for most of it. Finished 10th
2009. A poor start to the season cost us but by the end of the season we were the best side in the comp IMO. We lost 3 games in a row by 2 or less. If Tuiaki doesnt get injured against Parra, we win that game IMO and make the finals. Finished 9th. Disappointing but it heralded what was to come in 2010 and 2011.
2010 and 2011 were great. On our day, we were the best team in the comp. We copped very poor decisions in finals games in both years (Roosters and Dragons) and we blew the game against Warriors despite getting a healthy lead. IMO the 2010 and 2011 teams were the best to not feature in the GF.
2012, it all fell apart as Sheens tried to go through another rebuild. In hindsight, this damaged the morale of players and derailed the season. Our big recruit also turned out to be a bit of a powderpuff. Sheens can be blamed for that.
By the end of 2012, a change for the club was probably the right decision. The recruitment of Anasta probably showed how stale Sheens was.
However, apart from 2009 and 2012, there are decent reasons for why we didnt make the finals under Sheens.
IMO the 3/10 line is extremely unfair given the history, particular the rebuilding Sheens did in 03, 04, 07 and 09/10.
Anyway just my thoughts.
Good summary IMO. Would love to ahve seen what Sheens would have done with the Tedesco, Brooks, Moses generation. Hindsight is an easy thing and I understand the "its time" sentiment in 2012 but with what Taylor, Cleary, Madge and to a lesser extent Potter put us through...what might have been.
