I came across a post on that other Forum that stated Sheens only made the finals 3 times in 10 years with us and that was unacceptable.
Now, clearly the record is correct but I thought it was worthwhile digging a but deeper.
Admittedly, Im a Sheens fan. He is, clestly IMO, the best coach Ive seen in supporting the Tigers for 38 years. Yes, that includes Warren Ryan.
So, Sheens started with us in 2003. We were a basket case. The squad was close to the worst first grade squad in history after the Lamb and Pearce fiascos. For that reason, I think it was unreasonable to expect Sheens to make the finals in 2003 and 2004. They were rebuilding years.
2005 we all know what happened. Yay.
2006 we lose Marshall to an injury early in the season. We still play well in some games. We lose 3 games depsite leading with 5 minutes to go. We lose 2 more games in golden point. We finish 11th but we are a much better side than that, as our performance against the Dragons in Rd 1 showed.
2007 we lost our two best players from 2006. Prince and Laffranchi. We also lost Skando. The players we bought (O’Hara, Morris and Lolesi) didnt deliver on the promise. We ended up with Farah playing 7 for a portion of the year. In truth, it was a rebuilding year. Marshall was again injured for a large portion of the season (11 rounds). Hodgo missed 7 rounds. Despite all of this, we finished 9th. Decent effort given circumstances. We missed the finals on F/A and had lost our first four rounds by small margins
2008. Similar story Injuries to Farah and Marshall (8 weeks) early in the season crueled our start. Bought Matty Head to solve halves problem Didnt quite work. I dont remember much about the season as I was living overseas for most of it. Finished 10th
2009. A poor start to the season cost us but by the end of the season we were the best side in the comp IMO. We lost 3 games in a row by 2 or less. If Tuiaki doesnt get injured against Parra, we win that game IMO and make the finals. Finished 9th. Disappointing but it heralded what was to come in 2010 and 2011.
2010 and 2011 were great. On our day, we were the best team in the comp. We copped very poor decisions in finals games in both years (Roosters and Dragons) and we blew the game against Warriors despite getting a healthy lead. IMO the 2010 and 2011 teams were the best to not feature in the GF.
2012, it all fell apart as Sheens tried to go through another rebuild. In hindsight, this damaged the morale of players and derailed the season. Our big recruit also turned out to be a bit of a powderpuff. Sheens can be blamed for that.
By the end of 2012, a change for the club was probably the right decision. The recruitment of Anasta probably showed how stale Sheens was.
However, apart from 2009 and 2012, there are decent reasons for why we didnt make the finals under Sheens.
IMO the 3/10 line is extremely unfair given the history, particular the rebuilding Sheens did in 03, 04, 07 and 09/10.
Anyway just my thoughts.
In hindsight it becomes obvious that Sheens has achieved the most with what Tigers have to offer. A lot of other coaches have now tried and not matched Sheens, though we'll never know if Ivan had honoured his contract.
My opinion is Sheens clearly knows how to get a team into premiership contention every 3-4 years. His main problem is being able to keep the team at that level in the "leaner" years, rather than bundling out of the finals and having to rebuild the team again. Tigers should genuinely have won 1 more comp in either 2010-2011, and although many teams miss premiership windows, it's particularly harsh for Tigers who just can't get into that elite position very often.
Given the last decade, Tigers fans would love to be back in the position of having a genuine premiership crack every few years. But also it's understandable that after 10 years of these Sheens ebbs and flows, it was time to look for another option. What we didn't know is how much of a burden the club itself is on coach and player performance.
I also wonder what might have happened if Sheens was still at the club when the "Big 4" were all becoming prominent, and he had guided them as juniors. There is a legacy, for example, with Benji and Robbie that has not since been repeated, with elite-talent players fostered by a highly-experienced coach, and then the players look back with very strong loyalties to the club. It is clear that guys like Tedesco, Woods and Slimy Fart were more worried about their personal brand than loyalty to Tigers, and all jumped ship as soon as offered the chance. Tedesco in particular was ready to leave any time his contract was up, so I wonder if having Sheens still in charge might have made a difference?
Ivan’s recruitment for us was terrible. Truth is that Ivan has never had to build a side. He inherited the best juniors in the history of the game. So, I have real doubts he could have got us there.
Yes, Im of the view that, if Sheens was here when the Big 4 came through, they stay. Teddy may have still left because he never had loyalty to the club but I still think he probably stays.
When Sheens left we pretty much abandoned junior development.
Sheens can be criticised for cap problems in 2013 and 2014. But, I tend to think the CEO is more to blame for that
Sheens also handed us our first wooden spoon. Don’t ever forget that.
Sheens had some good years as were pointed out in the first post. However a few of those loses that cost us finals positions were down to poor selections and coaching decisions in the game. Some of the recruitment decisions post 2011 were baffling.
We are clearly in a better position than we were 12 months ago and have a long term plan in place. However, I’m not sold that Sheens is going to set up long term success for the club. Happy to give him a chance but think his ability to turn it all around has been over stated by some.
Sheens is/was responsible for both appointments. Sheens orchestrated it, he owns the wooden spoon.@mike Sheens was not our coach kimmorley was oh and Madge
Anasta was a poor decision.
Other than that, there wasn’t many decisions I would change. Perhaps Hino to the Sharks. I was quite happy for Gibbs and Fifita to go for cultural reasons, even if it didn’t work out as we hoped.
The Blair recruitment didn’t work out but it’s hard to be too critical given everyone praised the decision at the time.
At least Sheens had the ability to recruit players.
The interesting thing this year is that this will easily be the best forward pack Sheens has had at the Tigers. In his first stint, Sheens never quite got the pack he wanted. Our outside backs are not quite there yet but if some of the young guys (Bula) make it, we will very quickly be a vastly different side.
If Moses comes, I think we are close to a top 4 side in 2024.
Sheens also handed us our first wooden spoon. Don’t ever forget that.
This isn’t true but even if it was, so what. There is no real difference in finishing 9th or last. Sheens made the decision to clean out the club last year after it became clear we couldn’t make the finals. He got Kimmorley to give young guys a go even though it might be counterproductive immediately. These were the right calls and gee we are looking good because of them.
Sheens also handed us our first wooden spoon. Don’t ever forget that.
This isn’t true but even if it was, so what. There is no real difference in finishing 9th or last. Sheens made the decision to clean out the club last year after it became clear we couldn’t make the finals. He got Kimmorley to give young guys a go even though it might be counterproductive immediately. These were the right calls and gee we are looking good because of them.
It is absolutely true. Let’s keep the record straight the Spoon is all his.
@mike Okay mate. If thats what make you feel better
It’s not about making me feel better, it’s about keeping the record straight. Sheens made three decisions that resulted in the wooden spoon that had he decided differently we wouldn’t have got.
1) Didn’t sack Madge at the end of 2021 when the opportunity presented.
2) Instead sacked Madge midway through the 2022 season
3) Put in a rookie coach, no NRL coaching experience, midway through the season to replace Madge.
Either way you look at it the Spoon belongs to Sheens. He has ensured that, no matter what happens this season, he will look like he has improved the team. Shifty Sheens doing what Shifty Sheens does.
Now are we in a better position this year? After having the opportunity to chat with some of the players on the open day I’d have to say yes. They all seem to buy into what is happening, a much better team culture and that’s a good thing. But that doesn’t change what happened in 2021/22 and why we got the spoon.
Sheens also handed us our first wooden spoon. Don’t ever forget that.
This isn’t true but even if it was, so what. There is no real difference in finishing 9th or last. Sheens made the decision to clean out the club last year after it became clear we couldn’t make the finals. He got Kimmorley to give young guys a go even though it might be counterproductive immediately. These were the right calls and gee we are looking good because of them.
It is absolutely true. Let’s keep the record straight the Spoon is all his.
The spoon was all Madge, as was the appalling fitness of the players, the ridiculous game plans and the embarrassing recruitment during his tenure. The second half of the season was a culmination of 3.5 years of horrible decisions done by a coach that was completely clueless and out of his depth. But every cloud has a silver lining, and i'm very impressed Sheens has managed to undo so many of Madge's wrongs already. I thought the damage Madge did would haunt us for years.
