A lot of good points raised on this page.
Lee has his weekly media appearance(s) on SEN - might be worth working with them when the time comes?
I think a good strategy would be to raise the issue and the strategy that we are looking at on one of the pods and then send that to one of the media and try and generate support through that. If a guy setting up a facebook page can get media attention then I don't see why we can't through the channels that we have.
In memory of Geoff Chisholm (1965-2022)
Again, though, it comes back to the same people and they probably aren’t going to green light a process that potentially points the finger at them.
There are three potential things that will happen in the next five years:
1. Current owners/board get their act together and steer us out of trouble.
2. They sell the franchise.
3. It becomes so unworkable that the NRL intervenes.
Based on the track records and personalities of those involved option 3 is most likely.
Why would the NRL intervene? Only in cases of insolvency or fraud would the NRL get involved. I've never heard of HQ becoming active in a continually losing side who otherwise have the funds to keep going.
I think instead the 3rd option is "current owners/board attempt to get their act together, fail, and we remain in trouble".
@garry, the idea of an independent review is fine, but it would have be instigated by the Board and senior leaders, so not much chance of that I fear. They're more interested in protecting their positions than being told they are "more problem than solution".
That's why I like the idea of coordinated and strategic protests by members/fans to raise NRL awareness of the ineptness of our current senior leaders and Board. At least it would get publicity.
The Ambush is holding a fan forum this weekend as a starting point, getting the media on board and actually pushing for change would be the best strategy in my opinion. I would like to see the review instigated from above the Wests Tigers Board.
Hey Garry - I re-plugged your post on the other forum (tagged you), under the CEO Discussion thread, to note how this is different from the usual Ambush event. Balmain Boy is proposing some new Facebook group to replace the "protest" move that was hosed down last round, but I attempted to make a point that multiple fractured (potentially combative) approaches are unlikely to generate the kind of movement that you are aiming for.
I agree with you that only a groundswell of coordinated supporters, in a constructive manner, with some kind of Tigers management or media traction, will have any impact. And I think you and Steve are the right spearhead for this, given your efforts over the last years to engage the club and drive fan/member outcomes.
The NRL will get involved when the supporters and sponsors are no longer there and the club becomes financially insolvent. Fans are becoming disillusioned with the club, it won’t be long before that spills over to the sponsors.Again, though, it comes back to the same people and they probably aren’t going to green light a process that potentially points the finger at them.
There are three potential things that will happen in the next five years:
1. Current owners/board get their act together and steer us out of trouble.
2. They sell the franchise.
3. It becomes so unworkable that the NRL intervenes.
Based on the track records and personalities of those involved option 3 is most likely.
Why would the NRL intervene? Only in cases of insolvency or fraud would the NRL get involved. I've never heard of HQ becoming active in a continually losing side who otherwise have the funds to keep going.
I think instead the 3rd option is "current owners/board attempt to get their act together, fail, and we remain in trouble".
Edit: remember we used to get 55k to Stadium Australia, the best we can do now is 28k. This can’t go on.
The NRL will get involved when the supporters and sponsors are no longer there and the club becomes financially insolvent. Fans are becoming disillusioned with the club, it won’t be long before that spills over to the sponsors.
Edit: remember we used to get 55k to Stadium Australia, the best we can do now is 28k. This can’t go on
I don't think so Mike, it's not trending that way at all.
You have to give Pascoe and co credit - despite the downward trend in results, the club is still turning a profit; in fact their profitability is increasing if Pascoe's recent slides are anything to go by. And they achieve 20K members annually despite not making the finals.
Maybe we have hit a critical moment where it all falls apart, but I just don't feel that - a couple of wins and a bit of hope and those rusted-on fans keep turning up. I think what you are talking about would take more years yet of catastrophic results.
Look at Newcastle - they still hold the NRL record for consecutive losses, have barely raised their Standard since those wooden spoons, but the faithful keep turning up in support and eventual hope for a return to glory days.
Also, unfortunately, sponsors don't prioritise winners, they prioritise media coverage, brand recognition and sales boosts. Tigers still rank highly in all of those fields, which is why we have arguably improved sponsorship in the last few years (compare HerbalLife to Brydens, also KFC, Telstra, Steeden, Zurich, Elmo, VB etc.)
Lastly - NRL fully covers the salary cap and Wests Ashfield chip in $1M per year, with much more capacity to support the club if necessary - all without sponsorship. Then Tigers have been able to afford to spend something like double the amount on Football Ops in the past 2 seasons compared to previous seasons, so they are not trending down financially.
@garry, the idea of an independent review is fine, but it would have be instigated by the Board and senior leaders, so not much chance of that I fear. They're more interested in protecting their positions than being told they are "more problem than solution".
That's why I like the idea of coordinated and strategic protests by members/fans to raise NRL awareness of the ineptness of our current senior leaders and Board. At least it would get publicity.
The Ambush is holding a fan forum this weekend as a starting point, getting the media on board and actually pushing for change would be the best strategy in my opinion. I would like to see the review instigated from above the Wests Tigers Board.
Hey Garry - I re-plugged your post on the other forum (tagged you), under the CEO Discussion thread, to note how this is different from the usual Ambush event. Balmain Boy is proposing some new Facebook group to replace the "protest" move that was hosed down last round, but I attempted to make a point that multiple fractured (potentially combative) approaches are unlikely to generate the kind of movement that you are aiming for.
I agree with you that only a groundswell of coordinated supporters, in a constructive manner, with some kind of Tigers management or media traction, will have any impact. And I think you and Steve are the right spearhead for this, given your efforts over the last years to engage the club and drive fan/member outcomes.
I think it is important that it remains constructive and not just a "Sack Pascoe" rant. For it to work you need to supply genuine options with a plan strategy in place. That is what we are hoping to achieve.
In memory of Geoff Chisholm (1965-2022)
The NRL will get involved when the supporters and sponsors are no longer there and the club becomes financially insolvent. Fans are becoming disillusioned with the club, it won’t be long before that spills over to the sponsors.
Edit: remember we used to get 55k to Stadium Australia, the best we can do now is 28k. This can’t go on.
The issue is the club won't become insolvent and even if it did the NRL would be stepping in to wind up the club. I believe it is important to try and push for change without financially damaging the club.
In memory of Geoff Chisholm (1965-2022)
@jirskyr out of interest, were they actual numbers or just charts without $ value showing a trend? And are these audited results or are we just trusting Pascoe?
@jirskyr out of interest, were they actual numbers or just charts without $ value showing a trend? And are these audited results or are we just trusting Pascoe?
The club has turned a profit the last 5 years or so, that profit is just above break even point. That is actually very respectable in the NRL where most club lose money, I believe there was a loss last year due to the payouts to a number of staff.
Financial issues are not an area that is going to bring about change at the Wests Tigers. There needs to be continual pressure in regards to on field results to generate enough groundswell and media focus to facilitate that change.
In memory of Geoff Chisholm (1965-2022)
I think it is important that it remains constructive and not just a "Sack Pascoe" rant. For it to work you need to supply genuine options with a plan strategy in place. That is what we are hoping to achieve.
Man, imagine getting a meeting with Pascoe and pitching him the idea where he resigns.
It's like my friend, when I asked if he had any creative suggestions to pitch to the club, said "win more". So I said "thanks DH, imagine going to a meeting with the club management and proposing that it's as simple as winning more games."
@jirskyr out of interest, were they actual numbers or just charts without $ value showing a trend? And are these audited results or are we just trusting Pascoe?
No Pascoe never puts numbers on his charts, you can only tell by visible scale. But he acknowledges this before he presents the data.
I assume it's audited - I don't think Pascoe can get away with not having an independent accountant sign off the annual figures to his stakeholders. By whom, I have no idea and it probably makes no difference even if we identified which nobody faceless accountant it was anyway.
Man, imagine getting a meeting with Pascoe and pitching him the idea where he resigns.
It's like my friend, when I asked if he had any creative suggestions to pitch to the club, said "win more". So I said "thanks DH, imagine going to a meeting with the club management and proposing that it's as simple as winning more games."
I'm sure I remember you saying at some point that if they win all the negativity will stop lol.
In memory of Geoff Chisholm (1965-2022)
@jirskyr out of interest, were they actual numbers or just charts without $ value showing a trend? And are these audited results or are we just trusting Pascoe?
The club has turned a profit the last 5 years or so, that profit is just above break even point. That is actually very respectable in the NRL where most club lose money, I believe there was a loss last year due to the payouts to a number of staff.
Financial issues are not an area that is going to bring about change at the Wests Tigers. There needs to be continual pressure in regards to on field results to generate enough groundswell and media focus to facilitate that change.
I was just asking how we know for sure what they are telling us all is the truth.
Ok thanks, was just curious.@jirskyr out of interest, were they actual numbers or just charts without $ value showing a trend? And are these audited results or are we just trusting Pascoe?
No Pascoe never puts numbers on his charts, you can only tell by visible scale. But he acknowledges this before he presents the data.
I assume it's audited - I don't think Pascoe can get away with not having an independent accountant sign off the annual figures to his stakeholders. By whom, I have no idea and it probably makes no difference even if we identified which nobody faceless accountant it was anyway.
@jirskyr out of interest, were they actual numbers or just charts without $ value showing a trend? And are these audited results or are we just trusting Pascoe?
The club has turned a profit the last 5 years or so, that profit is just above break even point. That is actually very respectable in the NRL where most club lose money, I believe there was a loss last year due to the payouts to a number of staff.
Financial issues are not an area that is going to bring about change at the Wests Tigers. There needs to be continual pressure in regards to on field results to generate enough groundswell and media focus to facilitate that change.
I was just asking how we know for sure what they are telling us all is the truth.
I know you were mate, I have actually spoken with him about this, as I think Jirskyr has as well. i have no doubt that what he is saying is true, I just don't think they are far above breakeven.
In memory of Geoff Chisholm (1965-2022)
