How bout this: if it looks like it went forward , call it a forward pass. Leave it in the refs hands and maybe ask the touchies to wake up and help with the calls. Then, accept the decision and move on. Easy!
I'm with you Steve. The NRL has a poor track record of implementing change (bunker, 2 refs, 1 ref, 6 again, shoulder charge) and will foul this up for sure.
Bonjour. Perhaps a quick read of V.N. Gribov's "The Theory of Complex Angular Momenta" might solve the problem and close this discussion. We can only hope.
Au revoir, The Frog
Whilst the physics discussion is good, ultimately it doesn't help to get bogged down in the technicalities at this time. For example whilst I can understand the argument, as clarified by barra, that any non-forward pass in a forward-back plane (only) should not accelerate towards forward, I am not sure if that would always work if the player is running sideways or backwards, or in the case of a hand-off / offload, or if the ball makes a dramatic motion prior to being released (e.g. a flick pass or being held out in front of the body).
And then it becomes moot anyway because there may not be any device capable of measuring acceleration in a single plane forward-back.
What you really have to do is debate the technology when they tell us exactly what it is doing. I still suspect they are working on some kind of vector measurement device, which tracks ball movement in 3D space and applies some kind of rule for how "backwards" the ball must travel from its release point. Even being able to measure release point may be extremely difficult (whereas in tennis or cricket that isn't a factor at all).
I think the reason that I got a little wrapped up in the physics talk, is because (to me) Barras example actually simplified it and I think it would be very easy to do technically. If the ball has a chip then the GPS element measures it motion and it is a relatively simple calculation (simple high school trig) to calculate the component of the vector travelling exactly north south and whether it accelerates in that direction (ie being pushed or passed in a forward motion).
Im not getting caught up in it again. IMO the technicalities of it is easy and IMO it would not be difficult to do that.
A trickier question that to me is not easier to answer with Newtonian physics, is do we WANT them to do that. Even if the tech and physics is 100%, do we want it to go down that path? Increased stoppages? Another reason to pull back a Tigers try etc?
Yes we want it. It should be like the ball-line technology in soccer or net calls in tennis - the ref gets a ping on his watch and makes the call. If the pass isn't forward, the play doesn't even stop.
Except it’s not like either. They are destination technologies. ie what happens to the ball at its destination. Tech about forward passes would be source technology ie. what happens at the beginning of its travels.
I have a very simple question in the regards to the source. How would the tech determine when the ball had left the players hands?
No the system would not be the same, but the point I was making was that the application of the technology should be the same: it should only pipe up if there has been an indiscretion. Ideally every pass would be monitored and the refs would get a call in their earpiece when the system detected a forward pass.
We should not be in a position where the technology is deployed and someone still has to refer a forward pass to a video ref, who then applies a cricket-style hawkeye DRS over multiple replays. That would be tedious.
Interesting article today by ABC Sport about SAOT (semi-automated offside technology) used in the FIFA World Cup this year. This is far more sophisticated than the VAR goal line technology used.
I'll try to post a link below, much of it not directly relevant to the NRL ball technology that I have been advocating, but a big part of SAOT is ball monitoring technology and this paragraph caught my eye.
Cameras aren't the only components of the system, he says. Because offside is determined at the moment a player is passed the ball, the ball used at World Cup matches contains a sensor with an accelerometer and gyroscope to measure the exact moment it's kicked.
It's coming. I can feel it!
(Interestingly this exact technology would put to end whether a play is 'forward pass' or actually 'offside'.)
